BREAKING! Tim DeChristopher Indicted! Show Trial Ahead

Tim DeChristopher INDICTED! US Attorney Brett Tolman (Utah) has leveled formal charges. Tim’s response

This will be a political show trial at taxpayer expense.

Please join www.bidder70.org to support Tim’s brave action.  If you are a DKOS diarist, please go there and recommend this post.

 A grand jury indicted Tim DeChristopher this afternoon. He’s charged with two counts of violating the Federal Onshore Oil and Gas Leasing Act. 

Democracy Now: University of Utah student Tim DeChristopher explains how he “bought” 22,000 acres of land in an attempt to save the property from drilling. The sale had been strongly opposed by many environmental groups. Stephen Bloch of the Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance said: “This is the fire sale, the Bush administration’s last great gift to the oil and gas industry.”

 This is about politics. US Attorney Brett Tolman (Jason Chavetz look-alike)  is Orrin Hatch’s ‘boy.’  I think we may assume Tolman has given up any hope to being retained by Obama’s Justice Department and is gunning for Jim Matheson’s (D-UT) seat or the new 4th District seat.

Utah Now (full story): He’s the 27-year-old college student and environmental activist who disrupted a public land auction last month by bidding up several parcels intended for oil and gas development. Join us as we take a closer look at what some are calling a case of modern-day monkey wrenching.

Please donate to Tim’s Legal Defense

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  1. #1 by Good 'nuff and well expected on April 1, 2009 - 3:53 pm

    Sounds about right. Equality under the law.

    Don’t do the crime, if you can’t do the time!! Don’t do it!

    Did you think gas/oil wouldn’t demand he be made an example of?

    Maybe yer prince will pardon him 3 1/2 years from now.

  2. #2 by Becky on April 1, 2009 - 4:46 pm

    So is it illegal to disrupt an illegal process? The BLM failed to follow its own rules prior to the auction, ultimately the Interior Secretary canceled all lease sales from that auction.

    Why would the disruption of the auction not be moot now?

  3. #3 by Good 'nuff and well expected on April 1, 2009 - 5:42 pm

    You got it. Mind yourselves, it should be absolutely clear now who runs the show.

    Never mind the big fish and policy, if you are a small moron and screw with the Feds action, well you get the picture.

    In a timely note,try not filing if you owe. The Feds right to tax your income has never been ratified by Congress, but see where that gets ya. Have you ever known anyone not to file that was owed money to be paid back?

    Terrify and make examples of the weak. Do not allow them to speak.

    It is exactly what it appears to be, and ya’all wanna ban guns. Founders would just laugh at ya.

  4. #4 by James on April 1, 2009 - 6:49 pm

    Hardly a show trial ahead. This news is already causing people to fall asleep. Tim was an idiot who acted on impulse. If you hitch you wagon to his start then your cause goes down in flames with him. Tim will learn first hand why you should work within the system to make things happen instead of bucking the trend. He is a poor choice for a martyr and I guarantee he won’t be feeling like a martyr when he gets out. Just look at the pictures of his face now compared to when he first was arrested. He’s lost allot of his rebel edge. I bet he cuts a plea if one is offered and does the minimal time then disappears from public view to spend the rest of his ignoble existence away from the public eye. Question for Becky, how is the lease auction an illegal auction if Tim was arrested for causing a disruption and placing bogus bids? I think that point will be made very clear that you can’t deem something illegal merely because you disagree with it. I wouldn’t count on Obama pardoning Tim based on his current record tim is not in line with Obama’s policy. He is very quick to distance himself from anyone who is caught breaking the law. Just look at former governor Blogojevich.

  5. #5 by Moribund Republic on April 1, 2009 - 6:56 pm

    Tim is Dim, as are his supporters.

  6. #6 by Becky on April 1, 2009 - 7:10 pm

    James,

    How does the arrest prove or disprove the legality of the auction? It proves nothing. Tim will now have his day in court.

    And what is your own tie to the oil and gas industry, James?

  7. #7 by Moribund Republic on April 1, 2009 - 7:20 pm

    He will be tried Becky, and convicted. Probably cop a plea when the deal is offered.

    Imagine entering an IRS office and fucking with the people there. The ratification of income taxes has never been accomplished by a vote in congress. It was established by simple fiat.

    Do you think you won’t fall under the full weight of Federal prosecution if you do not comply? That depends on your class, and connections to elite. Let’s face it, how many jerk offs has Obama tried to appoint that haven’t paid their taxes? Are they going to jail? Puhl-eeese wake up Becky.

    “If it walks like duck, and squawks like a duck, it a ducktatorship”. glen

  8. #8 by Cliff on April 1, 2009 - 7:41 pm

    Please join http://www.bidder70.org to show your support for Tim.

  9. #9 by Moribund Republic on April 1, 2009 - 7:50 pm

    Fuck Tim, he’s a simpleton. What becomes of him is to be example. The price of fucking with empire.

    The Afghani’s have far more sense. They blow up the pipeline, and ‘aint skeered.

  10. #10 by James on April 1, 2009 - 8:44 pm

    My only tie to the oil industry is that everything I buy is affected by the price of oil in one way or another. What do you think caused the whole world economy to take a nose dive? It wasn’t sub-prime mortgages or corrupt banking practices. The only thing that affected the whole world economy equally was the exorbitant prices being demanded for Petroleum products. everyone was hurt equally. The only people that really benefited by the high oil prices were Hugo Chavez and the oil Cartel. While all you democrats cheered at the high prices thinking it would result in a renewed drive for alternative energy, level headed pragmatists pushed for immediate actions to retrieve oil already available in capped wells on U.S soil that were prohibited by environmental legislation. The court proceedings will determine if Tim had in fact violated a legal proceeding. If the auction was deemed illegal then Tim would not be able to be charged with a Federal crime.
    If you are this myopic on such a simple matter how are you dealing with the total disassembly of the free market system by Obama?

  11. #11 by Moribund Republic on April 1, 2009 - 8:53 pm

    NO SHIT JAMES!! Couldn’t have said it any better.

    BTW the lack of caps and official grammar is just perfect.

    Doesn’t change the facts does it?

  12. #12 by Federal Farmer on April 1, 2009 - 9:40 pm

    Tim DeChristopher broke the law. Whether or not you believe it was justified, DeChristopher violated the Federal Onshore Oil and Gas Leaking Act and will probably be spending some time in a Federal Prison.

    And it was pretty clear from our interview with DeChristopher on KVNU’s “For the People” that he anticipated such consequences. In my opinion, “civil disobedience” and “fraud” aren’t closely related. Nevetheless, DeChristopher’s actions, like civil disobedience were intended to bring attention to a controversial issue.

    Cliff and Becky, DeChristopher is going to have to face the consequences of his actions, which is completely appropriate. By challenging his indictment, you are taking away from the political statement he is making. And from what I can tell, DeChristopher is willing to accept his culpability and his punishment.

  13. #13 by Moribund Republic on April 1, 2009 - 10:06 pm

    Don’t drop the soap Tim!

  14. #14 by Becky on April 1, 2009 - 10:55 pm

    Farmer,

    None of us can be sure what the outcome of this indictment will be. I do hope Tim does not serve time in jail. For me, it was enough that he took the risk and was willing to do so. There are extenuating circumstances in this case. The Bush administration rushed through the auction without the proper due diligence beforehand. The Obama administration canceled the leases that were sold, promising to review the lands involved before going ahead with any more auctions. The subsequent auction proceeded with no problems.

    If the government was in violation simply in conducting the auction, how could disrupting that illegal auction be a crime? Of course, I’m not a lawyer, and they will have plenty of angles to argue. All of this will unfold in time.

    Nothing I (or any of us) may say can take away from his courageous act. It was a simple and beautiful illustration of how Americans have always overcome government oppression.

  15. #15 by Larry Bergan on April 2, 2009 - 12:56 am

    So the oil and gas industry got their hair mussed and now they’ve got to set an example by bringing the force of the law down on somebody who acted entirely out of a desire to do the right thing. Disgusting beyond belief!

    Amy Goodman promised to follow this story. Thank goodness there are a couple of places where the truth will be seen.

  16. #16 by Utah Bubble Guy on April 2, 2009 - 1:05 am

    This is an interesting case and one that I am following closely because my website is dedicated to the peculiarity of Utah.

    The kid did something to prove a point… and there was a time when people went willingly to prison to make sure the point was made very loud and very clear. Is Tim willing to do that? Does his point even matter? That is the saddest part of this… I think his point only really matters to those who support his cause… the rest of us don’t really care… in the end though he may get to meet Al Gore and write a book that will sell a thousand copies :)

    In the end everyone who is saying it is right… don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time. And don’t mess the government alone. Bring your lawyer when you do it!

    Just another story that helps to define the Utah Bubble!

    ps… I was amazed to even find a Dem blogger in Utah ;)

  17. #17 by Ken on April 2, 2009 - 8:41 am

    Sad that he had to be the sacrificial lamb because those leases were never going to see the light of day anyway.

  18. #18 by Rich Okelberry on April 2, 2009 - 8:43 am

    I love it, liberals complaining about a political show trial for a political show protestor. Can anyone claim that Tim did not intentionally break the law?

    Let’s ask him shall we?

    Mr. DeChristopher, did you purposely break the law?

    I imagine that waiting for an answer will be like waiting for Shane Smith to disclose his own religious convictions during one of his anti-Christian rants.

    Will anyone else claim that he did not purposely break the law? I didn’t think so. Tim gave the prosecution a slam dunk and now he will have to start trying on day glow orange jammies.

    I’ll put money that he eventually cops a plea deal to save his own ass. Of course, if I were the prosecutor I wouldn’t give him a deal unless he is willing to provide a list of everyone that knew he intended to do this so that they can be charged with conspiracy… How fun… I wonder if any of the members of OneUtah Organization knew of his plans to break the law.

  19. #19 by Richard Warnick on April 2, 2009 - 10:41 am

    After eight years of defending Bush administration illegalities, suddenly the right-wingers are expressing concern about the rule of law.

    I agree that the issue is now moot because the leases were canceled, and charges should be dropped. However, Tim DeChristopher has publicly declared that he broke the law on purpose –even if his lawyers argue extenuating circumstances (such as the fact that the auction itself was illegal). That’s the essence of civil disobedience. It’s not correct to suggest he’s trying to avoid justice.

    What I don’t get is why Brett Tolman might think this will benefit him politically. Bringing charges just makes the government look bad and invites further scrutiny of the BLM’s illegal actions.

  20. #20 by Ken on April 2, 2009 - 10:44 am

    Richard

    Just like they say “Don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time.”

  21. #21 by Becky on April 2, 2009 - 10:50 am

    Interior Secretary Salazar is quoted as saying:

    In order to have a fair and orderly process for these sales, it is essential that all participants follow the prescribed rules.

    All participants should follow the prescribed rules? Wouldn’t that apply to the government as well as the bidders? Seems like the government will have to do a little fancy footwork in court to get around that.

  22. #22 by Damien on April 2, 2009 - 10:51 am

    “has PROUDLY admitted breaking the law”- man I am trying to teach my kids that breaking the law is a “BAD” thing.

    Sad that anyone would trash someone for doing something wrong and then use the term proud a few moments later when describing an act that is in fact WRONG.

    Anyone remember that old saying… two wrongs don’t make a right? Am I the last person in this country who believes that when you do something that is illegal you are responsible for the consequences?

  23. #23 by Richard Warnick on April 2, 2009 - 10:53 am

    Ken–

    Read Tim’s statement…

    I acted openly and honestly because I was then, and still am ready today, to accept and suffer the consequences of my actions.

    He also says that he’s not planning to accept a plea deal– this is going to trial.

  24. #24 by Richard Warnick on April 2, 2009 - 10:57 am

    Damien–

    Are you aware that former President Bush has proudly admitted ordering massive violations of the laws against torture and warrantless surveillance? Also, that former VP Dick Cheney has confessed to ordering torture?

    Do you agree that high officials who break the law and openly admit doing so ought to be prosecuted?

  25. #25 by cav on April 2, 2009 - 11:00 am

    I do not think Illegal necessarily equates with wrongness, any more than legal equates necessarily with rightness. See: Civil Disobedience – tens of thousands of pages have been written on this very subject.

    Teach your children something of the morality of thier decision-making, they’ll be ok.

  26. #26 by Damien on April 2, 2009 - 11:08 am

    The argument isn’t about Bush… it’s about some kid who decided to break the law. Bush deserves what he gets… personally if it were up to me there would be many politicians in jail and they wouldn’t just be Republicans BECAUSE I AM INTO BEING TRUE and not into being a leftist or right winger.

    You lefties always need to bring everything back to Bush… what about Randle, Reid, Pelosi, Daschle, and half of Obama’s team and their tax issues?????

    When are American’s going to wake up and hold ALL BAD POLITICIANS responsible??????

    Why do people only hold “THE OTHER POLITICAL PARTY” responsible???? Because THEY ARE REALLY STUPID!!!!!!!!!

    Are you going to hold the Dems responsible too Richard or are you to invested or weak????

  27. #27 by Richard Warnick on April 2, 2009 - 11:30 am

    I don’t agree that Tim DeChristopher is “some kid who decided to break the law.” He acted out of the highest sense of principle.

    I agree that politicians should never be above the law. There have been Democrats as well as Republicans who have broken the law. Until the Bush administration, I never heard the President and Vice President of the United States go on TV and confess to their crimes. It’s as if in 1973 Nixon said “I am a crook, and I dare you to do something about it.”

    You’re worried about role models for your children? Worry about that.

  28. #28 by Damien on April 2, 2009 - 11:56 am

    Richard,

    You are KILLING ME!!!! Is protecting Americans not a good reason or excuse to bend or break the law? Of course wasting tax payer dollars like Tim did is OK… he did so on a high moral ground.

    CRAP!

    Bush is not a role model for my kids… that was supposed to be President Obama (whom I voted for), but he has turned out to be a liar too.

    There ARE ABSOLUTELY NO role models in politics today. What makes me laugh so hard is that it seems I am the only person in the country (other than Glenn Beck) who is willing to go after both sides and hold Bush & Cheney accountable, but also Randle, Daschle, and the super tax cheat Geithner… and what about Chris Dodd??? How are these fools still in power??? What about Orin Hatch? Helps a guy who imported 31 pounds of liquid cocaine into the country get out of prison – and it was a bribe… cause the guy is producing Hatch’s music!!!!!

    WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE FOR THIS STUFF??? Or maybe I should say WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE FOR WHAT DEMOCRATS DO?

    With everything that is going on you still want to just hate Bush and love liberals… it’s obvious… if Bush and Cheney committed crimes then they should go to prison (though they would be pardoned).

    You just hate Republicans… it’s like the media… they won’t go after Dodd. They won’t report every day for year that Biden’s daughter is a cocaine addict… but Palin’s daughter is fair game.

    YOU ARE THE PROBLEM with this country. There is no longer a “fair” view… you’re either right or left and that’s it… and you sir are very very very left.

  29. #29 by Federal Farmer on April 2, 2009 - 12:22 pm

    Becky and Richard,

    I see where you are coming from on this one. The process itself should be scrutinized, and while I don’t agree with DeChristopher on this one, I respect his courage. And while the process may have been conducted improperly (and even that is controversial), one thing is for certain, Tim DeChristopher broke the law and openly admitted doing so.

    If it is true that the Bush Administration rushed the auction without the “proper due dilligence,” then that is to be disputed in a court of law. But as far as DeChristopher is concerned, he is guilty of breaking the law and no matter how illegitimate the auction may have been, DeChristopher’s actions were in violation of the principles of bidding… and he is still in trouble; to try and use a “moot” argument isn’t going to hold water.

    DeChristopher broke the law… he signed a bidder-registration form and clearly violated the provisions HE agreed to. Like Okelberry mentioned before, this was a slam-dunk case for the prosecution. And it was naive of DeChristopher to assume that President Obama would come to his rescue.

    It is silly to call this a “show trial,” or that the trial is “all about politics,” as Cliff has asserted. I have respect for DeChristopher’s courage, but he is going to have to face the consequences of his actions, which means he very well could go to federal prison. “Civil disobedience,” as you have referred to it, has real consequences… and without consequences, it fails to be an effective form of protest. I think that DeChristopher’s fate will in fact bring attention to this issue and may be a catalyst for changes. But to desire to see DeChristopher emerge unscathed defeats the power of his statement.

    Henry David Thoreau went to jail for refusing to pay a poll tax, and from that we got “Civil Disobedience.” DeChristopher needs to pay the price, and in doing so he will further his cause even more. Too often we want all the theatrics and make-believe martyrdom that protesting entails, but there are consequences, and real change only comes about after real stuggle and sacrifice.

    DeChristopher, I don’t share your point of view, but I respect your daring and I wish you the best of luck in the future. And I have no doubt in my mind that you will come out of this a better person.

  30. #30 by Richard Warnick on April 2, 2009 - 12:32 pm

    Damien–

    Torturing detainees did not protect Americans, as you seem to think. It motivated many more people to join the fight against the United States, and eliminated our standing to credibly condemn inhumane treatment of prisoners in other countries– including captured Americans!

    In addition to the moral and legal arguments against torture, professional interrogators know that torture is good for just one thing– producing false confessions. You don’t obtain valuable information from torturing detainees, as the Bush administration found out the hard way.

    You cannot possibly argue that warrantless surveillance is more effective than legal surveillance according to the Constitution. All it does is demonstrate contempt for the rule of law.

    I should have suspected your unhinged ideas come from Glenn Beck. FYI, I am not the least bit afraid to criticize Democrats, as evidenced by past blog posts here.

  31. #31 by Richard Warnick on April 2, 2009 - 12:40 pm

    Fed Farmer–

    I agree that civil disobedience is all about doing the right thing even if it’s against the law, then accepting the consequences.

    Don’t you think that putting DeChristopher on trial is going to backfire on Brett Tolman, the BLM and the government? Either the jury will acquit (possibly through jury nullification) or DeChristopher will be convicted and sent to prison in an obvious miscarriage of justice. No BLM officials will be sent to jail, I’m willing to bet.

  32. #32 by Shane Smith on April 2, 2009 - 12:43 pm

    “Is protecting Americans not a good reason or excuse to bend or break the law? ”

    No. Next question.

    http://oneutah.org/2009/03/31/faith-based-torture/

    “What makes me laugh so hard is that it seems I am the only person in the country (other than Glenn Beck) who is willing to go after both sides”

    You sir, are based in fantasyland. Thank you for your time.

  33. #33 by Damien on April 2, 2009 - 1:38 pm

    Shane-

    What an incredibly profound argument. Oh, and you are welcome.

    Richard… stop going back to Bush… I cannot stand him either – I honestly don’t know if torture works or not because I am not trained in the art… I let the experts do what they do because they know what works… I am not so egotistical as to think I know everything.

    AND IF IT IS ILLEGAL… and it happened… then those who participate in it should face the consequences. But all you want to do is talk about Bush.

    Let’s talk about what we can change:

    How about our current administration and the lies… what are your thoughts about that? Obama promised no lobbyists – lie.

    He promised the most ethically clean cabinet in years – lie.

    I think he is a good man, but I am worried about the lies… are you?

    When it comes to the actual point of this discussion, DeChristopher, it really depends upon what you believe. Since I do not trust officials very much (nor do I trust the media since I worked in it for over a decade and know most of what you hear is b.s.) I do not accept “global warming” as an issue caused by man. Rather I feel climate change is something that the Earth has done for millions of years on its own and will continue to do on it’s own. The arguments for both sides are convincing enough that I cannot make a decision on the validity of one over the other because, again, I am not a scientist. But I do know that Al Gore is a hypocrite… do you?

    By the way Richard I never argued about warrantless surveillance… where did that come from? Do you believe in aliens? Did they tell you that I think that is right? Because I never did.

    I am looking forward to your feelings on Obama since you are fair… and I posed a question when it came to torture… I didn’t say whether or not I support what was done by Bush… I am just saying that if you take the moral high ground for our little buddy Tim then why not give our President the benefit of the doubt about protecting us… chances are he knew things we don’t – well not according to the New York Times – but I am sure he did.

    AND IF HE BROKE THE LAW for nothing… or at all… then he deserves to be prosecuted. Just like Tim.

  34. #34 by Damien on April 2, 2009 - 1:39 pm

    P.S. Glenn Beck is just trying to get people to look beyond the politics and he is promoting unity through values… because the parties are so corrupt that no one is worth trusting anymore.

  35. #35 by Larry Bergan on April 2, 2009 - 1:53 pm

    Damien:

    You watch Glenn Beck. Turn away… turn away! The guy said anybody who takes him seriously is an idiot. Do you really want to watch somebody who calls you an idiot.

    DeChristopher’s AP article is at the top of Commondreams.org today and although there are only 7 responses so far, they are all positive about his actions.

    Let’s put things in perspective here. Are you going to admire somebody who did something for the right reason and knew he wasn’t going to get a dime, and in fact, fully realized he may have to lose his freedom…

    or…

    Some oil companies who were only represented at the auction because they fully expected to get a sweet deal that didn’t fairly compensate the public at all. They have been getting those sweet deals for decades because they don’t even need to break the law; they just pay congress off to change the law. This was even more insidious because it involved exploiting the very most precious places left on earth. These places can never be recovered if they are changed and, in my opinion are sacred.

    I hope the forces coming down on Tim live to regret the decision to cause him harm, and I believe they will.

  36. #36 by Ken on April 2, 2009 - 2:32 pm

    Richard

    He is young and idealistic. He has no idea what will be the consequences of his actions. Felony convictions will dog him for the rest of his life.

  37. #37 by Moribund Republic on April 2, 2009 - 3:15 pm

    “I hope the forces coming down on Tim live to regret the decision to cause him harm, and I believe they will”.

    We hope for leniency, but Tim volunteered to harm himself. Question: Has Tim been mentally assessed? Harming yourself is a symptom of mental illness. It could get him off.

    I would love to watch the “gas” bags follow that trial.

  38. #38 by Larry Bergan on April 2, 2009 - 3:35 pm

    If saving your environment is a mental illness, we could do with a lot more of it.

  39. #39 by Richard Warnick on April 2, 2009 - 6:35 pm

    Damien–

    You seem to think there is some doubt whether dozens of officials in the Bush administration violated the laws and the Constitution over a period of years. Yet you are quick to find Tim DeChristopher guilty… of what? What was the effect of DeChristopher’s one action?

    We’ve had several knock-down, drag out discussions here with Rich Okelberry about former President Bush’s lies to mislead people into supporting the invasion of Iraq. You ought to try convincing him that Bush lied before you try to accuse President Obama of lying!

    Ken–

    I’ve heard DeChristopher speak at length, he’s 27 (young compared to me) but wise in the ways of politics and ethics. Hardly the fool you make him out to be.

  40. #40 by Damien on April 2, 2009 - 10:06 pm

    You Richard are the very reason I am an independent… and could never ever be a Democrat.

    I don’t doubt Bush screwed up… you have decided that I am some kind of Bush supporter when I am not. The difference between Bush and Tim is that Tim admitted to guilt and has been arrested. Bush has yet to be charged with anything for whatever reason.

    I am not accusing Obama of anything… I am pointing out a fact… HE LIED… it’s simple… when my child says I didn’t take that lollipop and I find the stick and wrapper in his/her room I know he/she lied… when the President runs for office and promises he will not include lobbyists and will have the most ethical cabinet and then he appoints lobbyists and his cabinet is riddled with tax cheats he lied.

    Bush is an idiot, but he is also IN THE PAST. Bush screwed up the last four years, but Obama is screwing up things NOW!

    DeChristopher, in my opinion, did nothing great. He did waste tax dollars. That’s it… but if you could stay on the original discussion (which no liberal can it appears) all I said is that when you commit a crime and you get caught you DESERVE YOUR PUNISHMENT.

    Plus, as I said before, the arguments for global warming are both good enough that I do not feel it has been proven one way or another that man has or has not caused it.

    Should we take care of the planet? Of course. Do I believe Al Gore? No. He is an idiot who wastes more fuel and energy in a month than my entire family does in a couple of years… he is a hypocrite.

    I am glad that you proved that you cannot hold Obama accountable for his lies… I still hope he does well, but I have lost some respect for him because of his lies… but you can’t even admit that to yourself… you used the term accuse… LOL… come on Richard are you that naive?

    The funny thing is I have met Obama and worked for him. I think he can be a great leader if he would clean up his cabinet and admit to the fact that he was unable to do what he promised.

  41. #41 by Damien on April 3, 2009 - 1:12 am

    Oh and Larry about Glenn Beck…

    I am really sorry if you do not understand sarcasm, but that is what he means when he says such things.

    You also are amazing… your telepathy is so intense… the way you can dive deep within my mind and come up with things that I supposedly think without me ever saying so or even hinting at it.

    I never said I support the oil companies.

    All I have said is that Tom DeChristopher is not a hero, though I will admit to his bravery for doing what he thought was right. I guess I just don’t see breaking the law as admirable.

    Rosa Parks is a hero, but Tom DeChristopher is not.

    He did the crime and now he hopefully will do the time!

  42. #42 by Larry Bergan on April 3, 2009 - 2:59 am

    Damien:

    Only the first sentence of my comment was directed towards you. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

    This entire comment IS directed towards you:

    I don’t think Beck was being sarcastic. I think that was his way of saying his show was just entertainment because he was asked a tough question. It’s what Limbaugh has been doing for years to make excuses for bad information dissemination, (actually lies.)

    Beck is working for a television station that went to court to insure they had the right to lie, but they call themselves a news organization. What do you think about that? I’ll ask again: why would you watch anything from such an organization? It’s just garbage in your mind, and garbage out of your own mouth, isn’t it? Wouldn’t you rather be conversing about things that are real?

    Some tough questions for you, but I’ll answer a tough one myself to say that I believe breaking the law is OK if it benefits society. What if you worked for a corporation that you knew was doing something that was going to hurt or even kill a lot of people, but you were going to have to commit a felony to expose them. Would you think your personal comfort and safety was paramount in a situation like that?

    That being said, we’re not sure Tim was doing anything more illegal then the Bush administration by letting the auction proceed, or anything illegal at all. After all, they passed a law to make sure this couldn’t happen again. Why did they do that?

  43. #43 by Shane Smith on April 3, 2009 - 7:53 am

    “Glenn Beck is just trying to get people to look beyond the politics and he is promoting unity through values”

    Yep, so long as you are a white male heterosexual christian, then you can all be unified by his values, so long as you dislike everyone else. What a guy!

    “Shane-
    What an incredibly profound argument”

    Didn’t even read the link did you? No, because if you had, you would see that your question was meaningless in the face of actual facts.

    But then what should we expect of a Beck follower…

  44. #44 by rmwarnick on April 3, 2009 - 8:40 am

    Damien says:

    Bush is an idiot, but he is also IN THE PAST. Bush screwed up the last four years, but Obama is screwing up things NOW!

    Former President Bush did massive damage to national security, the Constitution, democracy and the economy for eight years. We’ll be living with the consequences of his malfeasance for the rest of our lives. President Obama is trying to pick up the pieces. Should we help him, or sit around and complain about trivialities?

    FYI, there is a difference between “lying” and finding out, once you are in office, that you’re unable to keep a campaign promise.

    DeChristopher, in my opinion, did nothing great. He did waste tax dollars. That’s it… but if you could stay on the original discussion (which no liberal can it appears) all I said is that when you commit a crime and you get caught you DESERVE YOUR PUNISHMENT.

    There is such a thing as justice. Is it right to prosecute Tim DeChristopher, while Bush administration officials get off scot free? DeChristopher did not initiate illegal last-minute oil and gas leases– the Bush administration did, hoping to lock in valid existing rights for their friends in the industry. I know Tim has the integrity to own up to his actions. What about the government officials who caused this?

  45. #45 by Larry Bergan on April 3, 2009 - 12:59 pm

    If for no other reason, Tim’s idealistic and brave action have got us talking about something other then the three G’s, (God, guns and gays.) Our environmental legacy is what will sustain and inspire us for all future generations or it can literally be destroyed in one generation by people who want to cash in on it.

    The trial is a good thing because it will get us talking about things that really matter, (thanks ONLY to Tim), but if I have to see this wonderful young man go to prison, I’m going to be very angry at the prosecutors and all of the terrible people who are posting, saying things like LOCK HIM UP!

    Where do you people come from?

    If Tim decides to make some kind of plea, that will be fine with me because nobody in Utah gives a damn.

    Depleted Uranium just got reclassified as safe enough for Energy Solutions to store it in Utah. They will be making millions of dollars and not even giving a pittance to Utah’s population. Where is the outrage there? Are we really that crazy here?

  46. #46 by Becky on April 3, 2009 - 1:06 pm

    That’s right, Larry. And years from now people will say, “If only we knew then what we know now.” Just as with the down-winders in Southern Utah years after the testing of atomic bombs in the Nevada desert.

  47. #47 by Moribund Republic on April 3, 2009 - 1:22 pm

    Tim wants to be punished. Speaks to mental state. It is his best way off. The conundrum at least in appearance is he doesn’t want to get off. He decided to be a martyr for the environmental cause. Let him.

    The law is enforceable, we will see what becomes of him. Should he pay for his part in illegality? Would you imagine yourself exempt if you had thought to do it? No, you stuck with legal protest and your signs.

    Honor it. There is no moving forward without sacrifice.

    Yes Larry, you really are that crazy in Utah. It is why I moved out. Nice place to visit, but living there? The rain up here at least washes away the scum, the filth.

    The world recovers Larry, if only in geologic time. Kansas was once destroyed by the man made dust bowl effect. Go there now and see if you can tell. Most of Utah is pretty marginal, which is why not many people care about what happens there.

    I remember my New York friends coming to Moab and vicinity, and upon seeing the multiple dry canyons burst out with, “We could dump all our garbage here, all we need is one canyon”…and so it goes.

  48. #48 by Larry Bergan on April 3, 2009 - 1:30 pm

    MR:

    When I started with my sign, I didn’t know whether it was legal or not, but there were a couple of cops who tried to intimidate me. I guess you have to cost somebody money before it becomes a problem.

    To tell you the truth, I am jealous of what Tim did. My long effort didn’t change a single thing or bring justice to anyone. In one afternoon, Tim did more to save the places I love then 30+ years of effort by the Wilderness Society and the Sierra Club.

  49. #49 by Damien on April 3, 2009 - 1:40 pm

    Gents,

    First of all let me address one important thing. I worked in the news media. All new people lie and cheat for one reason. Entertainment. Glenn Beck admits it, but the people I have known at CNN, Fox News, CNBC and other stations and shows all lie and cheat to do one thing: ENTERTAIN.

    If you think Anderson Cooper is some great investigative guy think again. He’s an entertainer. So when you think you are getting the hard line news think again. You are getting a well strategized and completely biased version of events based off of the news company’s leadership.

    My friend in Iraq told me after being interviewed along with several other soldiers, a CNN reporter walked ten feet away and reported exactly the opposite of what the soldiers had said. Bad form? Maybe. True to the fact that CNN is liberal. Yup. Fox is right. MSNBC is sad.

    And don’t forget that the New York Times and other news outlets have reported on military plans that got people killed… and one report (CNBC) got my buddy shot. Fox News isn’t the only news agency lying… can you admit that at least?

    By the way- rally quick- do you think the coverage of Palin’s daughter having a kid was balanced compared to Biden’s kid doing cocaine??? Or is it worse to have a kid than to do coke?? Come guys.. any takers on this one… PLEASE WILL YOU GUYS RESPOND TO JUST ONE OF MY QUESTIONS AND NOT GO RIGHT BACK TO BUSH????

    Can we at the very least admit the obvious together????

    I love your comment Larry about the three G’s, but to be honest I am not sure I could discuss any of those with this group because they are unwilling to admit wrong in both sides.

    Obama lied. It doesn’t mean his Presidency will fail. It doesn’t mean I don’t still have some respect for the man- because we all lie and get snagged once in a while. All I need from him is for he and his team to admit they were unable to keep some promises. That to me is TRULY transparent.

    I respect ALL Presidents (except for Jimmy Carter) because they hold the office that represents us to the world. I have enjoyed arguing with you all of you because we need to have discussions like this one to ensure out way of government continues.

    I gave a lot of thought to the arguments for Tim and in the end I just don’t think I will be changing my tune on this one.

    The toxic waste… now I agree with you there… if we accept the storage then everyone should get some cash to take care of their extra limb that is going to be growing on us soon ;)

    And Becky this is for you:

    True on the bomb point, but my wife’s mother used to go watch the bombs and she is in better health than any almost 70-year-old I know… and my wife’s family are super healthy and they are all from Vegas… so maybe they put human fertilizer in the bombs as well as the bad stuff ;)

    Please don’t forget the point that I made before… I do believe we need to take care of our planet, but I will not be fooled by people like Al Gore who abuse the planet 100 times as much as I will in my lifetime and then walk around preaching to me all day. VERY BAD FORM- and he is THE ULTIMATE HYPOCRITE… hey maybe we can get Al and Dick out hunting together… bad for Al but good for the cause!

  50. #50 by cav on April 3, 2009 - 1:40 pm

    Thanks just the same, Larry.

  51. #51 by Larry Bergan on April 3, 2009 - 1:42 pm

    Becky:

    Yeah, they thought putting on a pair of sunglasses for the WOW moment was sufficient. Sunglasses aren’t going to do anything for our soldiers or the children in Iraq who were exposed to depleted uranium. Now all of it can come to Utah because Energy Solutions is keeping it safe. (sarcasm) Maybe they can encase it in Syncrete.

  52. #52 by Damien on April 3, 2009 - 1:43 pm

    Oh, and Cliff… I saw you went to school in Vermont… love the mountains there… I grew up in the east and Vermont is where we went to ski and sometimes camp and fish. Beautiful place! Have you been back in recent years?

  53. #53 by Moribund Republic on April 3, 2009 - 2:02 pm

    ..and you do not need a CWP to carry concealed if not a convicted felon. Nobody gets to know. Your right to lethal self defense guaranteed by the Vermont Constitution, as well as the United States. You see, Vermont operated as its own Republic for 15 years before joining the Union. Has an exit clause as well.

    Fought as an ally of the Colonies during our Revolution.

    Universal health care. Equalized school district funding.

    This from a state with limited means. A state that does not throw the baby with the bathwater. Keeps what is great, disposes of what isn’t. That is truly progressive.

    “Don’t Tread on Me”.

  54. #54 by Larry Bergan on April 3, 2009 - 2:04 pm

    Moniker Damien says:

    All [news] people lie and cheat for one reason. Entertainment.

    Yeah under the lie that Americans like to be entertained rather then informed with anything consisting of more then slogans. Walter Cronkite has been trying to get the word out for years. Walter WHO?

    You’ll never see me defending CNN, or any over-the-air network today. You are lying now, trying to convince people there is ANY liberal media. I think Olbermann’s broadcast is over the top, but is illustrative of true balance for stations like Fox. It plays an important role because it does tell the truth or apologizes for mistakes. Hannity will lie for months at a time without blinking an eye.

    You may be able to find a mistake I’ve made on this blog because I’m not, (you know), a journalist such as yourself, but to admit you think lying is OK for entertainment, I doubt I have anything more to say to you.

    You’ll never catch me lying to misinform anyone!

    By the way, Ashcroft’s son got caught dealing marijuana. You didn’t hear about that, did you?

  55. #55 by Larry Bergan on April 3, 2009 - 2:06 pm

    cav:

    No problem. It was the only real enjoyment I had through the entire 8 year mess.

  56. #56 by Moribund Republic on April 3, 2009 - 2:10 pm

    In all of the entertaining extremist newscasts, remember the Dialectic.

    What you think you know, may not be true, just appeals to you. Wouldn’t be the first hairless monkey to make that mistake.

  57. #57 by Damien on April 3, 2009 - 2:26 pm

    Larry… Larry Larry Larry.

    I never said lying is OK. I said it is forgivable because everyone has done it at some point. Olbermann is a liberal. As far as I have heard he makes that very clear to his staff.

    I never said I was a journalist. Why do you keep insinuating things? I worked in media and in the news media for years, but they would never make me a journalist because I wold just tell the truth.

    I guess if I am looking for a straight out guy in the center I would go with John Stossel.

    Just tell me one thing Larry… are you able to comment on anything other than stuff you make up about people?

    I have caught you lying several times in this argument… you have made up several facts about me by assuming things, but that in itself is lying. When you misinform people that too is a lie. So you cannot say you don’t lie because you have several times made up things that aren’t true.

    I didn’t hear about Ashcroft’s son. I hope he went to prison, but I doubt it. Politicians seems to be untouchable. Like Ted Kennedy who murdered that woman when driving drunk and never spent a day in prison.

    Now to my actual point (since you like to misrepresent me)… lying is NOT OK. That is why I like Glenn Beck… he tells you what he’s thinking and what he believes. Walter Cronkite was a great news guy, but now he has an agenda like the rest of them. In today’s news it is difficult to know who is and isn’t telling the truth… that is why we must rely on common sense… BECAUSE IT IS NOT OK for people to lie in the news.

    As for Vermont’s past… universal health care sucks and it’s not money that the schools need – they need responsibility… see John Stossel’s report on our school system… but you guys are too liberal for that aren’t you? do you guys believe you can be wrong about anything? I was going to vote for McCain, but then I changed my mind… thought Obama was the better choice… I actually DO listen to both sides, but you guys seem to know everything… more than any New Yorker I have ever met.

    Can you admit to being wrong? Can you admit that maybe just because your political allies believe something it may be wrong? Stossel’s account of the state of our school system is scary stuff… the union is destroying our schools because there is no responsibility laid upon the teachers.

  58. #58 by Larry Bergan on April 3, 2009 - 2:30 pm

    Actually, I can only think of one cop who blatantly tried to intimidate me during all those years. I tried to get over to him the fact that I was there to uphold the rule of law. All of the other police officers were completely professional. Some even showed their support and others were amused. Sometimes, I did go a little too far, but anger can make you do things you regret later.

  59. #59 by cav on April 3, 2009 - 2:33 pm

    I’m never wrong, and I’m always right…well, there was that once…

  60. #60 by Larry Bergan on April 3, 2009 - 2:45 pm

    Damien, Damien, you said:

    I worked in the news media. All new people lie and cheat for one reason. Entertainment. Glenn Beck admits it

    Then you said:

    I never said lying is OK

    What am I missing here? When you said you were in the media to bolster your arguments, I assumed you had some journalistic leanings, but of course that doesn’t make you a journalist. I was wrong.

    I am deeply sorry, (that WAS a lie, or YOU might say I was being sarcastic.)

  61. #61 by Larry Bergan on April 3, 2009 - 3:08 pm

    cav said:

    I’m never wrong, and I’m always right…well, there was that once…

    LOCK ‘ER UP!

  62. #62 by Moribund Republic on April 3, 2009 - 3:16 pm

    Actually those who have universal care Damien are outliving Americans by quite a bit. In the case of Canada it is 22 months. They spend 1/2 of what we do per capita, cover everyone, and outlive us for whatever reason. Mostly due to preventative medical programs.

    Vermont spends less than many states per pupil and gets good results, you can even take your portion of the money and send your kid to charter, or private school. The point is that Vermont has equalized spending per pupil statewide.

    Just wanted to clear that up. I don’t necessarily agree with all of it. The decisions were made by majority vote at the ballot box, democratically, and like any changes was not without controversy.

    Welcome to democracy, New England style. When they want to change things they do. Elements of the Bill of Rights, and the 2nd, are written in stone, and would likely require some form of conquest of the State to change.

  63. #63 by Richard Warnick on April 3, 2009 - 5:42 pm

    Damien–

    Are you saying that Glenn Beck does not have an agenda? In what way could that possibly be true?

  64. #64 by Re-emerging Free Republic on April 4, 2009 - 8:50 am

    He does have an agenda, be on TV, entertain, develop his popularity, and get rich, just like everyone else in commercial television.

  65. #65 by Damien on April 4, 2009 - 11:38 am

    You are all crazy ;) You take words and twist them… true liberals to the end. But since you must continue to comment on the entertainment value of Glenn Beck, how about we talk about Obama the entertainer:

    Visit to Jay Leno
    Visits from actors and actresses to the white house including people like George Clooney – important stuff hunh?

    And Moribund your numbers are not impressive – people from Japan outlive everyone with their system and it looks a lot like ours!

  66. #66 by Larry Bergan on April 4, 2009 - 1:34 pm

    Brett Tolman seems to be caving in to outrage over his prosecution of a national hero, but says this in today’s Tribune:

    “…If we chose not to prosecute,” he said, “we would have been caving to strong political pressure.”

    Kind of strange for a prosecutor to assure the public that DeChristopher won’t be doing as much time as we thought, isn’t it? Fact is, Mr. Tolman, oil companies just aren’t as popular as heros. Whether you want to continue to fight for whoever is pressing charges, or keep your dignity is up to you. If Tim spends one day in prison for whatever justice you feel needs to be dispensed, you will have to live with that.

    I’m getting my “Free DeChristopher” sign ready. Maybe I can make Michael Moore’s front page again!

  67. #67 by Larry Bergan on April 4, 2009 - 1:36 pm

    Damien:

    Whatever…

  68. #68 by Becky on April 4, 2009 - 2:38 pm

    A very interesting news story, Larry. One has to point out that by choosing to prosecute, he appears to have caved to other political pressure. It is strange, indeed, that he is able to assure us about a sentence. Something sounds very backroom about all of this.

  69. #69 by Larry Bergan on April 4, 2009 - 3:06 pm

    I thought it was an interesting headline so I decided to top post. I just got back from the gas station, and I was talking to the cashier there about the phrase “bogus bidder”. I said I thought the bogus bidders were the oil companies and he heartily agreed.

    We got a lot of naysayers on this blog with Cliff’s latest post on DeChristopher, but the amount of positive input in his favor in national coverage and in the Tribune comments section, I think people supported what Tim did – not to mention the huge support that has rolled in and is still rolling in on the Thank Tim DeCristopher post.

    PS:

    Yeah, other political pressures or money.

  70. #70 by Chris on April 25, 2009 - 5:03 am

    The wealthy will kill us all with their never ending greed. Stop looting our world. 40% of the world is owned by 1%. How is that okay?

  71. #71 by Uncle Rico on April 25, 2009 - 5:49 pm

    Interesting piece in the SL Trib about how all civil disobedience in Utah is not viewed the same by federal prosecutors.

    Civil disobedience by Sagebrush Rebels resulting in the violation of federal laws and the destruction of federal property = Justified

    Civil disobedience by Red Rock activists resulting in the violation of federal laws without the destruction of federal property = Felony

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