Carl Wimmer, “We don’t need no stinkin’ universal health care”

Continuing to be the Party of No, Utah Republicans think it’s a bad idea that everyone should have health insurance, and they want to opt out of any plan passed by congress. State Representative Carl Wimmer feels so strongly about this, he is pushing for an amendment to the state constitution.

wimmerAccording to KSL, Wimmer says:

We’re going to pass a state Constitutional amendment stating that people will not be forced by the national government to purchase health care insurance and that small businesses will not be forced to provide them.

Wimmer says state Republicans have made some good progress on their own plan and that help from the Feds is anti-states’ rights. I don’t even want to get into the Patrick Henry club of which he is a part. But I am definitely interested in hearing the details of this Republican plan and how it is so great we won’t miss the Federal dollars we are likely to lose.

I’m willing to bet there are no details to be had.

Of course, getting an amendment through will not be easy as noted in the story, “. . . an amendment would have to come in the form of a joint resolution, approved by two-thirds majority in both houses, then approved by voters in a general election as well.” So this may just be grandstanding after all.

Utahns should be worried. Sometimes politicians can get so wrapped up in party politics and being anti anything the opposite party proposes, that they are even willing to harm their own constituents.

  1. #1 by Ronald D. Hunt on August 3, 2009 - 6:44 pm

    The Republican’ts have a half hearted 13 page health reform bill.

    Basically they would give everyone a $6,000 tax credit to offset an insurance plans cost, their would be no mandates, no insurance industry reforms(they believe that the current costs will be fixed by the so called free market eventually right…), their would be legal reform in the form of a health care court and award limits. The plan would promote medical savings accounts and even higher deductible insurance plans.

    This would cost around $700billion and leave the Medicare advantage plan corporate welfare in place. If you count the Medicare advantage plan’s costs this would cost more then the democrat plan. The republican plan has zero democrat input unlike the senate HELP plan which has over 160 republican sponsored changes.

    So basically the republicans have nothing to bring to the table, Their talk about the costs is hot air and political talking points meant to maintain the status quo. They want to hide the cost of the system behind a tax subsidy, force the tax payer to continue funding bad programs(Medicare advantage plan), force the tax payer to continue covering the costs of those that continue to refuse to get a plan, Do nothing to prevent medical bankruptcy and in fact potentially making it worse.

  2. #2 by Robspierre!! on August 3, 2009 - 7:38 pm

    Change your focus, all men are dead upon birth, it being a matter of time. The idea that you would force decisions upon those so stupid to not understand the concept of cooperative endeavor is a form of stupidity in its own right.

    Let them die of their infirmities, let them beg for mercy, let the guillotine decide whether their hubris in regard to the frailty of us all, is worth the ego it fosters.

    Napoleon says: I am coming, and that right quick.

  3. #3 by Travis B. Hartwell on August 3, 2009 - 8:24 pm

    For a state with the majority belonging to a religion (and of course, not just the LDS people have a monopoly on this) that teaches compassion and charity, things seem to be very screwed up.

    Do they not see there are significant problems in the way health care (well, insurance specifically — why is the major problem in health care money not “how do we help people achieve and maintain health?) is run? Or are they so blinded by partisanship and the lobbyists that they would rather take no action?

    I take issue with the statement “of those that continue to refuse to get a plan”. I think way too much emphasis is placed on the “freeloaders” in this debate. There are plenty of hard-working people who cannot afford health insurance because their employers are not required to offer it to them, or it is not offered at a reasonable rate. There are regulations and practices in the insurance industry that basically prevent some people from getting insurance outside of a group health plan. So their employment choices are limited (no self-employment, no working for a start-up, etc) by the insurance companies. The problem is with the insurance companies and *something* needs to be done to reforrm this current system. As a relative of mine that works in the health care system has pointed out to me, costs incurred during hospital visits and such would be much less — the burden would be much less on the tax payer and the charities alike — if people had access to insurance that would allow them to go to a doctor regularly. Siince many don’t, they wait until their problems are too bad and then they have to have expensive treatments and hospital stays.

    Health Care is a problem. I’m not saying what is being proposed in Congress is the right solution. But *something* must be done to help the people of this country help themselves. I’m sick of the insurance companies dictating how I and others are treated.

  4. #4 by Ronald D. Hunt on August 3, 2009 - 8:46 pm

    I support the current proposals by the democrats, I would support single payer as well if it came up in congress as well tho no to the exclusion of other reforms.

    I misspoke on that statement, I meant to say of those that continue to refuse to get a plan, are uninsurable or can’t get or otherwise afford a plan.

    For any reform to work everyone needs to be paying into the risk pool that can and have subsidy’s for those that can’t pay up to the point that they can pay.

    We still pay for everyone not paying into the risk pool, no reason we can’t recover atleast a bit of the expense and get everyone into some sort of coverage that doesn’t involve the overhead of the ER at the same time.

  5. #5 by Robspierre!! on August 3, 2009 - 8:47 pm

    Travis, what you describe, “something must be done” is the pinnacle of the methodology of the Hegelian Dialectic that elites utilize to establish further control over a populace they have actively colluded to to terrify in the absence of security they have actively denied.

    Ever wonder why our government is so terrified of terror from outside sources? They cannot control it, and that de-legitimizes them for obvious reasons. The criminal IDIOTS, capital I, have no idea how to pacify YOU at that juncture!!

    So, they declare a crisis and identify a group responsible you can easily fear and subsequently, HATE!!

    Simple, and age old. WAKE TF UP!

    Stand UP MAN!!

    When asked why he defied the crown before he was beaten by crown customs agents into mental dysfunction (brain damage), James Otis in his protest, the real Father of the American Revolution (Boston) was once asked why he defied the crown at his own, and his Treasure’s peril, he replied…

    “SO A MAN CAN STAND UP”!!!

    God Bless his Soul, and all the rest that followed his thoughts. Dr. Warren, no soldier, beaten to death at Breeds Hill by English goons, he, and too many more to mention. Thank your GOD, for the like the John Stark, Daniel Morgan, Benedict Arnold, Ethan Allen, George Washington, our own Quintus Maximus, that knew no personal fear, and slew British and tory tyrants like the RATS they were.

    STAND UP MAN!!

    WE ARE THAT, GOD HELP US!!

  6. #6 by Becky Stauffer on August 3, 2009 - 8:57 pm

    Travis,

    You are so right. Insurance companies have dirty tricks that make it nearly impossible for self-employed to be insured. My hairdresser and her husband had to be insured through two difference companies because of so-called pre-existing conditions that were nothing more than typical medical treatment all of us have had at some time. It’s so wrong, but what can individuals do against the rich and powerful insurance industry?

    Ronald, I too would support, in fact prefer, a single-payer system. I believe that is the only way we will actually see a reduction in health care costs. Someone I know who has no insurance was recently hospitalized to the tune of $68k. That bill will not be paid by an insurance company, so it will be paid by all of us. Wimmer needs to wake up to the reality of the situation.

  7. #7 by Robspierre!! on August 3, 2009 - 9:42 pm

    STAND UP BECKY!! Is the example of do or die of the founders of this nation against a vast military tyranny so terrifying at your age you would not act?

    Think by GOD, of your children, grand children, subject to the whims of this tyranny!!

    If you cannot, no judgment of you is made by those that war for freedom. We need only your tacit psychic support, your material support when such safety allows. God bless, we are in this together to the extent we can be.

    Come now ye tyrants, we are waiting for you, all of us, in the capacity of our individual measure and courage.

  8. #8 by shane on August 3, 2009 - 10:37 pm

    Wimmer says state Republicans have made some good progress on their own plan and that help from the Feds is anti-states’ rights.

    Yet another example of a “red stater” who is against all the money the fed gives his state. The blue states (as of 2004) paid far more in taxes than the red, and got far less money back.

    Just for a decade or so we should let the red states have their “states rights” way and when the red states are all third world countries we should ask how they feel about it… but I am moving first, Utah will last longer than most, but it won’t last forever.

  9. #9 by Richard Warnick on August 4, 2009 - 6:39 am

    Rep. Carl Wimmer grandstanding? OK, well, I guess that’s pretty much all he does.

    I read about Wimmer’s idiotic constitutional amendment in this morning’s Salt Lake Tribune. The front page story was about the shortage of primary care physicians in Utah.

    There was also a letter to the editor from a guy who lost his health insurance when the premium was jacked up from $250 to $2000 after he had a heart attack.

  10. #10 by Cliff Lyon on August 4, 2009 - 7:26 am

    Wimmer is goon. Did I say that? Shame on me. Carl Wimmer is a BIG GOON.

  11. #11 by Becky Stauffer on August 4, 2009 - 10:25 am

    Just for Wimmer’s benefit, this story points out that in 2006, 1 in 6 Utahns were uninsured. And with the slide in economy and layoffs, can we assume it’s even worse now? It’s staggering.

  12. #12 by Kelsie on August 5, 2009 - 1:54 pm

    Interesting to note that we are now trillions of dollars in debt and have no money for these programs promoted and pushed by the Democratic Party. Interesting to note that they are prepared and presented at midnight and asked to be voted upon 90 minutes into the morning session before anyone has even read 1/8 of the document. Interesting to note that the Speaker of the House told the Democrats that anyone who spoke to the Republicans about the bill would be harshly reprimanded (reported by a blue dog Democrat). Also noteworthy is the fact that no one in America goes without health care, even those who are here illegally and receiving schooling, libraries, streets, roads, clean water and sewage, police protection, health care, and no insurance requirement. I see no one going to Canada or to Great Britain for health care, but I do note that thousands come here for the best health care in the world. There are items that need to addressed to insure that we are not paying outrageous amounts, but that will never change until everyone PAYS something for their care. We are paying for those who pay nothing. Most of which are here illegally which is painful to me because of close associations with those in Ethiopia and other countries who have been waiting over 15 years for a chance to immigrate legally to this country. My best friend married a Canadian and lives apart from him most of the year because of immigration laws. The teacher I teach with was forced to return with her Australian husband and their new baby because his visa had expired and could not be renewed until he returned home (they had no extra money)
    There are solutions to this problem that do not make us socialists, that do not bankrupt us further, and that help those of us who honestly attempt to pay our way.
    Your idealistic, socialistic, marxist comments are more than disturbing. I watch legal and lawful and calm protests and they are mocked and ridiculed. I watch unlawful, damaging protests for Prop 8, and the right is still ridiculed. That’s what I hate about liberals or progressives or socialists, it is only their way or you are ignorant and uninformed and completely out of touch.
    You will soon see what Obama’s agenda will do to our country.
    Thank God for Jason Chaffetz, Rep. Price and for Fox News and others who are brave enough to stand up and tell the other side. I’m not sure I am brave enough to do it. I fear my emails and my signature on petitions will bring close scrutiny and repercussions. I never thought I would be frightened of my government in my life. I was horrified to find that out of the 28 Chrysler dealerships that were closed, that all but one were contributors to the GOP, or that inspector generals who found illegal activity on black friends of Barack were fired hours after submitting their documents (which is illegal by the way), or that the Latino leaders placed on Obama’s committees are radical Latinos, one of which stood only two years ago with a plunger yelling come over the border and have as many kids as you can because soon white people will be using this to clean your toilets and the other was the attorney suing the state of California under the pretense that California actually belongs to Mexico. I find it interesting on 6 or more news networks, we scrutinized the cost of a wardrobe when voter fraud was rampent and 120% of registered voters were voting in several states. I find it appalling that THE ONE’s wife who calls for wealth redistribution carries a $6,000 purse once before she is seen with another. Bush looks like George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and Ghandi at this point.
    Shame on you all. Shame on you for not being informed.
    Shame on you for voting for a communist for President.

  13. #13 by Kelsie on August 5, 2009 - 1:58 pm

    Sorry, I meant to say after Prop 8 that those protests were hailed by the news media, when churches were being vandalized, workers leaving the Church Office building were kicked and and verbally abused, etc. There was not one arrest at the Tea Parties. Not one in the entire US.

  14. #14 by Kelsie on August 5, 2009 - 2:03 pm

    Oh, I forgot to mention that we have CZARS which pretty much tell the whole story…..except that I forgot to mention that one is a card-carrying Communist.

  15. #15 by Kelsie on August 5, 2009 - 2:10 pm

    And, Travis, I find it difficult to understand your sentiments about the Mormon Church. In my discussions with those who are not Mormon that currently live here, this is one of the last places in the US that affords safe and clean living. People are choosing to live here because of the effect of the Mormon Church on this area.
    Perhaps you should consider moving to LA or NYC or somewhere where you are in the majority and report back.

    • #16 by Travis B. Hartwell on August 5, 2009 - 2:56 pm

      Kelsie:
      You missed my intent, I’m sorry I was unclear. First of all, I too am LDS. I have lived where I was in the minority; I moved back to Utah from Texas a couple yars ago. I think the people here are generally compassionate (LDS and non-LDS alike, I love the friendliness of people in general here — it was a shock when I visited DC a few years back to see how closed and un-friendly people were).

      My point was, for those of us who ascribe to a religion that teaches compassion, it seems the lawmakers are going out of their way to make it so make affordable health care was not available to all.

  16. #17 by Kelsie on August 5, 2009 - 2:11 pm

    I figured my comment wouldn’t make it past moderation.

  17. #18 by Kelsie on August 5, 2009 - 2:32 pm

    What about my comment #12? Why won’t you post that one?

  18. #19 by Kelsie on August 5, 2009 - 2:37 pm

    And while I’m complaining, the list is way too long, but I do remember watching Obama promise there would be no earmarks in his administration and also that it would be the most transparent administration on record. Did you know about the inspector general firings? Did you know that the Green Czar was a Communist? We all knew that Obama was Communist, wealth redistribution is just that, but did you care? He knows if he destroys our economy, he can push whatever legislation through that he desires, just like Roosevelt, but worse.

  19. #20 by Kelsie on August 5, 2009 - 2:37 pm

    Your comment is awaiting moderation.

    Interesting to note that we are now trillions of dollars in debt and have no money for these programs promoted and pushed by the Democratic Party. Interesting to note that they are prepared and presented at midnight and asked to be voted upon 90 minutes into the morning session before anyone has even read 1/8 of the document. Interesting to note that the Speaker of the House told the Democrats that anyone who spoke to the Republicans about the bill would be harshly reprimanded (reported by a blue dog Democrat). Also noteworthy is the fact that no one in America goes without health care, even those who are here illegally and receiving schooling, libraries, streets, roads, clean water and sewage, police protection, health care, and no insurance requirement. I see no one going to Canada or to Great Britain for health care, but I do note that thousands come here for the best health care in the world. There are items that need to addressed to insure that we are not paying outrageous amounts, but that will never change until everyone PAYS something for their care.

  20. #21 by Kelsie on August 5, 2009 - 2:39 pm

    Interesting to note that we are now trillions of dollars in debt and have no money for these programs promoted and pushed by the Democratic Party. Interesting to note that they are prepared and presented at midnight and asked to be voted upon 90 minutes into the morning session before anyone has even read 1/8 of the document. Interesting to note that the Speaker of the House told the Democrats that anyone who spoke to the Republicans about the bill would be harshly reprimanded (reported by a blue dog Democrat)

    • #22 by Richard Warnick on August 5, 2009 - 6:47 pm

      The National Debt was $5 trillion when President Bush took office– he doubled it to $10 trillion.

      Don’t tell me there’s “no money” for economic recovery and health care. Did anybody say there was no money to pay for Bush’s tax cuts for the rich? Did anybody say there was no money for an illegal and unnecessary war?

      I say, let’s go so deeply into debt providing good things for Americans — jobs, infrastructure, affordable housing, health care — that we can’t afford any more wars of aggression!

      • #23 by Travis B. Hartwell on August 5, 2009 - 6:49 pm

        Amen! This seems to be a fact that many people forget. Why are we spending all this money on a war that was of dubious if not illegal cause when we could be making a real impact on the lives of people back home?

        I guess “big military” doing something is better than “big government”.

      • #24 by Ronald D. Hunt on August 5, 2009 - 7:17 pm

        Feed the beast theory doesn’t work. Just because Bush spent like a drunken sailor with a no limit amex card doesn’t mean we should. Feed the beast would only work if the Federal government didn’t own the money printing press.

        That said unlike Bush’s unfunded Medicare expansion, all of the current proposals are going to be paid for and will not add to the national debt.

        As far as the national debt goes we can ether pay it down or let inflation lower the value of our currency, ether way each persons buying power is going to diminish.

  21. #25 by Kelsie on August 5, 2009 - 2:42 pm

    Sorry for the duplicate.
    I figured you wouldn’t publish the one unless it were broken down into segments.

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