“Both Parties Suck Equally” – Joe Republican

I want to apologize if I have ever suggested that Republicans and Tea Baggers are stupid.  They are instead perhaps simply uninterested in fact.

Yet again, I met the nicest Right Winger last night who thought Obama passed TARP (WRONG) and that it cost taxpayers 3 trillion dollars (FAIL).  I have yet to meet a single Republican who knows that almost all of TARP has been paid back and will likely result in a profit for the Fed.

He was also surprised to learn that the bulk of the Obama Stimulus bill was in the form of tax cuts.  He almost fell off his chair when I told him Obama has actually cut the budget.

  1. #1 by Bob on November 2, 2010 - 9:33 am

    Stay strong!

  2. #2 by Richard Warnick on November 2, 2010 - 10:32 am

    As a candidate and a senator, Obama supported the TARP bill. Unfortunately, the creative accounting of TARP ignores the devalued assets the government acquired with Fannie and Freddie. Also, all the benefits went to the perpetrators of out-of-control mortgage fraud and not to the victims. That’s why people are angry, in case the White House is unable to figure this out!

    TARP ought to have given the government some leverage over the financial sector, but they never used it. The least the Obama administration could do is order a foreclosure moratorium, just to do something for ordinary non-billionaire Americans.

  3. #3 by brewski on November 2, 2010 - 10:47 am

    I told him Obama has actually cut the budget.

    Cliff,
    Define “cut the budget” for me please.
    And please refer to the following numbers in your answer:
    2008 = $2.983T
    2009 = $3.518T
    2010E = $3.721T
    2011E = $3.834T

    You are making the uniformed Right Winger look smart by comparison.

  4. #4 by brewski on November 2, 2010 - 1:12 pm

    Cliff the LYING LIAR who LIES #2:

    the bulk of the Obama Stimulus bill was in the form of tax cuts.

    In fact:
    About $300 billion of the $862 billion (35%) stimulus legislation was for tax cuts and credits. The rest was spending.

    Also, these tax cuts were not really tax cuts in the way that real people think of tax cuts. They were one time payments which do nothing to change people’s behaviors. People tend to save a one time payment since they know there won’t be a second payment, while they spend when they expect a stream of payments, or a stream of lower tax liabilities going forward. So this type of one time payment is unlikely to stimulate demand or create jobs.

    The bill, however, did include the spending items which were in the vital national interest:

    A $67,726 federal grant to a casino outside the city of Green Bay, Wisc., to send employees to a local customer service seminar.

    $390,000 in stimulus funds for SUNY-Buffalo to conduct a study on the relationship between drinking malt liquor and using marijuana.

  5. #5 by brewski on November 2, 2010 - 1:23 pm

    Cliff,
    The LYING, LIAR who LIES #3:

    almost all of TARP has been paid back and will likely result in a profit for the Fed.

    In truth:

    Washington’s economists contend that taxpayers should get most of that money back, except for about $50 billion to $60 billion. But, in reality, this is only the tip of iceberg. According to Bloomberg News reporters Mark Pittman and Bob Ivry, when all the special deals are tallied, the true costs come in at around $12.8 trillion—$1 trillion short of the U.S. gross domestic product.

    This includes $29 billion worth of tax breaks for banks; $168 billion given by the Bush administration as part of a smaller stimulus program; $787 billion handed out by President Obama under his stimulus package; $400 billion for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to prop up the mortgage industry; $500 billion released by the FDIC to cover bank failures; plus $300 billion from the Federal Housing Authority to help the troubled housing sector. But this is not all that was offered to financial firms.

    There are trillions more dollars that the privately owned and controlled Federal Reserve has handed out to keep the system afloat. Over the past two years, the Fed has created numerous financial programs, which functioned solely to guarantee risky loans and complicated debt and interest-rate swaps and to back assets that continued to lose their value.

    Fed bankers also lowered the discount rate to near zero, handing out free money for bankers to use at their own discretion. They were even making hundreds of billions of dollars worth of loans to foreign central banks.

    Of course, the Federal Reserve did not want the soiled masses to know any of this. The Fed arrogantly continues to stonewall the release all of the details to the public—so there may be billions or even trillions of dollars more that we don’t know about.

    -American Free Press

  6. #6 by Federal Farmer on November 2, 2010 - 4:18 pm

    Um, I completely disagree with you about TARP
    http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/what-gets-you-most-upset-about-the-tarp-bailout-the-lying-the-corruption-or-the-economic-damage/
    But perhaps that debate must wait…

    I do want to say this: Both parties don’t suck equally… but that’s not important. The important thing is that they both suck.

  7. #7 by Uncle Rico on November 2, 2010 - 4:34 pm

    Both parties don’t suck equally

    True that.

  8. #8 by Larry Bergan on November 3, 2010 - 6:23 pm

    Amazing list of accomplishments that Americans know nothing about unless they happened to tune in to the Maddow show.

    Tragic!

    Why don’t the Democrats speak up more!

  9. #9 by brewski on November 3, 2010 - 6:51 pm

    Because the more they talk, the less people like them.

  10. #10 by Larry Bergan on November 3, 2010 - 8:57 pm

    You’re thinking about Cheney.

  11. #11 by brewski on November 3, 2010 - 9:38 pm

    My favorite quote of the day:

    There are certain parts of it [the health care bill] we all want to revisit

    Now she tells us! So you mean she agrees with the Republicans that it might have been a good idea to take a breath and make sure we got it right before ramming it though with 700 page amendments at 3 o’clock in the morning? Ya think?!

  12. #12 by brewski on November 3, 2010 - 9:39 pm

    Ooops, that was what Pelosi said to the president of the Pelosi jr high fan club Diane Sawyer.

  13. #13 by Richard Warnick on November 3, 2010 - 9:51 pm

    The Affordable Care Act is corporatist legislation, largely written by former WellPoint VP Liz Fowler (who now works in the White House).

    Only in Washington would anyone think that reopening the health care “reform” debate to do some tweaking, to make the law more acceptable to Republicans, is a good idea.

    Congress already wasted a whole year on passing a health care bill that was worse than doing nothing. They ought to have addressed higher priorities, like reviving our economy or ending the war in Afghanistan/Pakistan. Or investigating the crimes of the Bush administration.

  14. #14 by Dwight Sheldon Adams on November 4, 2010 - 9:21 am

    Brewski–

    Clearly the untold billions exposed by American Free Press are not a part of TARP. You may catalog them in a different argument about Obama/Bush/the general suckiness of Congress and the Fed, etc., but it isn’t correct to say that because the fed distributed cash and Obama signed the stimulus bill that TARP itself has not been mostly paid back.

    –Dwight

  15. #15 by cav on November 4, 2010 - 9:34 am

    And where did they get the money?
    They did get money, got healthy, rewarded themselves richly…and unemployment is stuck at 9%.

    It seems, the Fed carried out a program of quantitative easing between March of 2009 and March of 2010 in which
    it purchased $1.4 trillion in mortgage-backed securities and $300 billion in Treasuries.

    Together with near-zero interest rates, the printing of hundreds of billions of dollars flooded the financial markets with cheap credit, enabling the US banks and big corporations to record bumper profits even as they slashed
    jobs and costs and suffered revenue declines.

    Noting that the banks paid back that money is not exactly discussing the problem anymore.

  16. #16 by Dwight Sheldon Adams on November 5, 2010 - 11:47 am

    Oh, absolutely, cav. “The problem” goes far beyond the short-term question, “Did they pay the money back?” Letting it go that far and no further is like dismissing a high murder rate because the murderers get caught more often than not and serve their jail time. Except in this case the murderers are getting paid for their crimes and asked to pay it back.

    So, yes, the problem is so much more. It involves a systemic failing, both in terms of economy and governance. I was simply addressing Brewski’s bogus statement-padding—TARP itself didn’t cost all that he plopped down on top of it with his quotation from American Free Press, no matter how costly the other programs were. As he was using this fallacious grouping to attack Cliff personally, I felt it appropriate to encourage parsing when parsing is due.

    –Dwight

  17. #17 by cav on November 6, 2010 - 11:24 am

    Dwight, I’m heartened by your understanding of this (these) issues. May that understanding take great leaps and bounds throughout the citizenry.

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