VP Biden: ‘Take Responsibility’

That’s my take-away from tonight’s vice-presidential debate. Vice President Biden kept asking Congressman Ryan to take responsibility for the nation’s well-being, something the Republicans in Congress have conspicuously refused to do. Their plan has been to sabotage the economy and try to blame the Obama administration.

VP Biden nailed Ryan on his faux concern for the middle class:

Stop talking about how you care about people. Show me something. Show me a policy. Show me a policy where you take responsibility.

And by the way, they talk about this Great Recession as if it fell out of the sky, like, oh my goodness, where did it come from? It came from this man voting to put two wars in a credit card, to at the same time put a prescription drug benefit on the credit card, a trillion- dollar tax cut for a — very wealthy. I was there. I voted against him. I said, no, we can’t afford that. And now all of a sudden these guys are so seized with a concern about the debt that they created —

Biden went after Ryan on his party’s obsession with tax cuts for the rich.

“Instead of signing pledges to Grover Norquist not to ask the wealthiest among us not to contribute to bring back the middle class, they should be signing a pledge saying to the middle class we’re going to level the playing field,” the vice president said.

“It’s about time they took responsibility,” he added.

Now that Ryan is running in a national election, he won’t say what plans he and Willard (“Mitt”) Romney have. He won’t give details or accept any responsibility for tax policy, the budget, national security or foreign policy. In contrast, VP Biden kept emphasizing that President Obama has taken responsibility and made some hard decisions that turned out pretty well.

In all, Biden used the word “responsibility” 13 times. Rep. Ryan used it once, in his closing statement – “We will take responsibility,” Ryan said defensively. But he was referring to a hypothetical future, not now.

Moderator Martha Raddatz deserves credit for excellent follow-up questions, especially on foreign policy. Also for ignoring the rule against addressing Ryan as “congressman.” But she said, “Both Medicare and Social Security are going broke.” That’s false.

More info:
Transcript: Biden-Ryan Vice Presidential Debate
At The Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan Told 24 Myths In 40 Minutes
Biden says Romney revealed true self with ’47 percent’ remarks
ThinkProgress Liveblogs The Vice Presidential Debate

  1. #1 by Larry Bergan on October 12, 2012 - 3:09 am

    I thought Biden did a great job until it came to religious issues. I guess this came down to WMD’s or WTF!

    What do Americans expect Democrats to do, when a plurality of Democrats embrace WMD’s?

    Maybe somebody can convince me that I’m confused.

    Please!

  2. #2 by cav on October 12, 2012 - 5:06 am

    Confusion is only part of the emotional mix. It is NOT a ‘steady-state. Relax.

  3. #3 by brewski on October 12, 2012 - 8:57 am

    Hard to take “take responsibility” seriously from Biden when he hasn’t passed a budget in 3 years as the law requires. Any claim of Biden and Obama “taking responsibility” is a pathetic joke and anyone who repeats it is a pathetic joke.

    http://www.politifact.com/new-jersey/statements/2012/sep/12/leonard-lance/congressman-leonard-lance-claims-us-senate-has-not/

  4. #4 by Richard Warnick on October 12, 2012 - 9:00 am

    Republicans in Congress have been obstructing everything. Irresponsibly. Then last night Ryan was crying crocodile tears over the death of bipartisanship!

  5. #5 by brewski on October 12, 2012 - 9:08 am

    Obstructing shit is not irresponsible.

  6. #6 by Richard Warnick on October 12, 2012 - 9:09 am

    It is when the economy is in trouble, it’s your fault, and you refuse to help fix it. Congress went on vacation without re-authorizing the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) – commonly called food stamps.

  7. #7 by Richard Warnick on October 12, 2012 - 9:19 am

    Another example of irresponsibility: Last night Rep. Ryan renewed his support of President George W. Bush’s failed Social Security privatization plan.

  8. #8 by brewski on October 12, 2012 - 9:26 am

    Tell it to the President of the Senate.

  9. #9 by brewski on October 12, 2012 - 9:28 am

    Voluntary option for private plan for younger people. I’d take that option in a heartbeat. Hardly what you said. You lie.

  10. #10 by Richard Warnick on October 12, 2012 - 9:43 am

    Yeah, because 401(k) retirement plans are so popular? I don’t know anybody who is happy about their 401(k). We want a defined-benefit plan, and Social Security is all that’s left because pensions are rare now.

  11. #11 by brewski on October 12, 2012 - 9:46 am

    Which part of the word “voluntary” don’t you understand? You are dense.

  12. #12 by cav on October 12, 2012 - 10:11 am

    “Obstructing shit is not irresponsible.”

    Proctologists beg to differ.

  13. #13 by Richard Warnick on October 12, 2012 - 10:15 am

    Republicans have always hated Social Security because it’s one of the most popular government programs ever, and it makes life better for the average American. Without it, more of us would have to crawl before the 1 Percent.

    So, do I trust Republicans to tinker with Social Security? Absolutely not. Letting Ryan and his fellow right-wingers get their hands on Social Security and Medicare would be a ticket to Pottersville.

  14. #14 by brewski on October 12, 2012 - 10:40 am

    Bullshit. 95% of people would be far far far better off if 12.4% of the earnings over their entire lifetime was saved in a real fund and then accumulated interest. Take your entire working lifetime earnings over 45 years or so, then take 12.4% of that, then take interest, then compound that interest, and figure out that vs. your monthly SS benefit. Oh yeah, and if you die early you get nothing and your heirs get nothing.

    “This paper compares Social Security benefits relative to those paid from private investments:
    specifically, whether 2003 retirees would gain more retirement income if they had invested their
    payroll taxes in private accounts during their working years. Three different retirement ages and
    four possible earnings levels are considered for two private investments—6-month CDs or the
    S&P 500. On average, the results suggest less than 5 percent of current retirees would receive a
    higher monthly benefit with Social Security.”
    The Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

    http://research.stlouisfed.org/publications/review/05/03/part1/GarrettRhine.pdf

    http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Blogs/Capital-Exchange/2010/03/30/capital-exchange-social-security-hager.aspx#page1

    http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2011/09/07/ious_cant_save_social_security/

    http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2010/12/21/dont-trust-social-securitys-fund/

    Since Ryan said opting to a private plan would be voluntary, you should choose to stick with your $800 a month or whatever it is and be done with it. But you want to take away the choice for the other 95%. You are anti-choice. You are a Statist.

  15. #15 by james on October 12, 2012 - 10:58 am

    Wow. Biden was on fire last night and craftily exposed the R&R “plan” for the economy the hollow shell game it is. Ryan looked like a deer in the headlights last night. The base is re-energized!

  16. #16 by Richard Warnick on October 12, 2012 - 11:42 am

    brewski–

    I don’t know where you bank, but my credit union currently pays 0.25% APR on a 6-month CD.

    I’m not buying the idea of a “voluntary” opt-out of Social Security. The Wall Street guys want to grab the whole trust fund eventually.

  17. #17 by brewski on October 12, 2012 - 12:56 pm

    0.25% is much higher than what SS pays. SS pays a negative return.

    “But it is now official: Social Security is a lousy investment for the average worker. People retiring today will be among the first generation of workers to pay more in Social Security taxes than they receive in benefits over the course of their lives, according to a new analysis by the Associated Press.”

    http://moneyland.time.com/2012/08/07/social-security-now-takes-more-than-it-gives/

  18. #18 by Jonesy on October 12, 2012 - 1:00 pm

    On fire for sure was biden, he reminded me of Richard Pryor. The base is re-energized, but the fact is obama is behind now.

  19. #19 by Richard Warnick on October 12, 2012 - 1:29 pm

    Economist Dean Baker: “Social Security and Medicare are hugely important for the security of the non-rich population of the United States.”

    Yes, my generation had to pay more into Social Security than we will get back, on average. They doubled the tax back in 1983 so that we had to pay for the retirement of the generation ahead of us, and for our own retirement too. That’s not a particularly good deal, but I think it is important to keep Social Security as a defined benefit program, the only one available to most middle-class Americans.

  20. #20 by james on October 12, 2012 - 1:30 pm

    Jonsey:

    Most polls show the opposite. While the race is tight, Obama is NOT behind, and Ohio and Florida are still polli9ng for Obama. It may prove a long night Nov. 6, but Obama is more than likely to pull it off.

  21. #21 by Jonesy on October 12, 2012 - 1:31 pm

    Take responsibility? That is hilarious coming from biden a man serving under the biggest ‘scuse maker for president I have seen in my life. Nothing is ever obama’s fault, a 5 year old takes more responsibility.

  22. #22 by james on October 12, 2012 - 1:32 pm

    brewski:

    Where does it say that SS must always pay a positive return in every instance?

  23. #23 by Jonesy on October 12, 2012 - 1:34 pm

    No they don’t…. that is week old hash james.. it is only going to get worse for obama as well, as the fire begins to burn out of control from the wastrel policies he has promoted over in the ME.

    His foreign policy is entirely his, and the presidents only true power he alone possesess is the conduct of foreign policy. When he loses it will certainly be one of the biggest fuck ups a democrat majority holding all the cards has ever squandered. Only took 4 years amazing, has to be a record for total incompetence.

  24. #24 by james on October 12, 2012 - 1:38 pm

    Yeah. OK, Glenn. Whatever you say.

  25. #25 by cav on October 12, 2012 - 1:40 pm

    Malarkey, you people.

  26. #26 by Jonesy on October 12, 2012 - 1:42 pm

    The news of his unconstitutional insistence on indefinite detention without charges for American citizens for mere the suspect of terrorism is finally making its power felt.

    Without ever saying why he violated the federal judges orders and filed an injunction to keep IDWC(indefinite detention without charges, or we call it America’s NAZI Enabling Act too) violates a western civilization right that goes back to 1066! 1066.. Habeas Corpus has been suspended by this GOON of a president..

    Sorry boys, there is just nothing obama can do about stupidly wanting to keep that as an unconstitutional privilege.

    But you know that, being a lawyer..

  27. #27 by cav on October 12, 2012 - 1:46 pm

    Observe the use of the word ‘tacitly’ …

    The questions offered by the debate moderator took as their point of departure the unchallengeable legitimacy of the operations of American imperialism abroad and the profit system at home.

    Many of them touched on foreign and military policy, in every case tacitly assuming that the United States has the right to bomb, invade and conquer any country it chooses. The discussion between the candidates dealt with the expediency of such military actions, not whether they were legally or morally justifiable.

  28. #28 by cav on October 12, 2012 - 1:50 pm

    And Biden’s prideful support of sanctions against the people of Iran had me asking Mrs cav if she recalled where I stashed the barf-bags.

    We are led by immoral idiots, and the elections are rigged.

    There, I said it.

  29. #29 by cav on October 12, 2012 - 2:02 pm

    None of which is to say I support the young Munster lad.

    See also http://lifesnow.com/bingo/

  30. #30 by Richard Warnick on October 12, 2012 - 2:15 pm

    cav–

    Glenn Greenwald, while generally approving Martha Raddatz’ performance last night, called her on the unspoken premise that the USA has the right to attack any country we feel like, whenever we want. Also he pointed out that Social Security and Medicare are NOT going broke, even though she stated that as if it were a fact.

    Oh, did you know that the Munsters are coming back?

  31. #31 by brewski on October 12, 2012 - 2:22 pm

    Hahahahahahaha

  32. #32 by brewski on October 12, 2012 - 2:37 pm

    This is really funny. You link Greewald. Greenwald links the Columbia Journalism Review. The CJR shows an opinion piece by Trudy Lieberman. Ms. Lieberman, a journalist of sorts who seems to have no understanding of government accounting, net present value of liabilities, or pretty much anything other than what she has already decided. So basically this entire string of “evidence” “proof” and “facts” comes down to some reporter’s lefty opinion. This is a joke and the process is a joke and the lack of understanding of anything is a joke.

    There are no trust funds, they don’t exist, they are fiction. The only thing that all of these fictions rely upon is the good faith and credit of the US Treasury. That’s it. So yes, we can print money or tax ourselves in the future for policies made in the past, but there are no trust funds. This is the Greece problem, the Portugal problem and the Spain problem. At some point your promises get ahead of your ability to make good on them as the Obama Treasury has already said. “We don’t have a definitive solution”.

  33. #33 by cav on October 12, 2012 - 3:12 pm

    Oh Ye of little faith. We create our own reality! You can be in mine if I can be in yours.

    Certainly it can’t be argued that the Romney clan shun trust funds.

  34. #34 by Richard Warnick on October 12, 2012 - 3:36 pm

    Last time the Tea-GOP in Congress denigrated the full faith and credit of the U.S. government, it resulted in a downgrade of the National Debt by S&P. Can you say, “self-fulfilling prophecy”?

  35. #35 by brewski on October 12, 2012 - 3:43 pm

    It’s arithmetic. “We don’t have a solution”

  36. #36 by cav on October 12, 2012 - 3:51 pm

    Further out the limb then. There’s jobs out there – somewhere. That too has been prophesied.

  37. #37 by Jonesy on October 12, 2012 - 4:37 pm

    Oh there are jobs alright cav, I hear there is a boon in grave digging market, and gauze manufacturing over in Afghanistan in response to obama’s policies there.

    It’s all GNP to Karzai.

  38. #38 by Jonesy on October 12, 2012 - 5:11 pm

    Yes james..I told you before he was elected that he was a CFR bot, and would follow their policies of chaos production the world over to destabilize nations to the letter, so they can be added to the collection that world banksters keep like trophies in their board rooms.

    Obama is their stooge, he doesn’t like it, but as a very weak man, he has no choice. His wife has more sand, and certainly more heft.

    We don’t have too wait long, one thing is sure, the embarrassing drooling over themselves and chest pounding posturing of the members of the cult after obama’s election certainly looks asinine now..

    Please comment on the IDWC of the NDAA, your tack as a lawyer, albeit a patent one, would be appreciated..on its face it looks to be pure fascism when a federal judge declares it unconstitutional, and obama goes around him in order to keep that power as one of his own. What obama has done even goes a step further with the suspension of habeas corpus.

    Article 2 of the NAZI Enabling Act.

    “Laws enacted by the government of the Reich may deviate from the constitution as long as they do not affect the institutions of the Reichstag and the Reichsrat. The rights of the President remain undisturbed”.

    This is de facto what obama has done with his countless presidential orders and the NDAA..it has to stop, and is going to. It’s dictatorship when a single man can order acts of war without any review from legislative bodies. It is also unconstitutional in this Republic.

    No sworn American can allow it, to support it as a sworn American or the man who insists on it, is treason.

  39. #39 by Cliff Lyon on October 12, 2012 - 5:25 pm

    I remember when the Bushie reaction to NDAA was along the lines of; If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about.

    We Liberals warned you that whatever executive powers you gave to Bush would be inherited by the next Democratic President.

    Now its happened. And now Jonsey is whining.

    HYPOCRITE
    !

  40. #40 by Jonesy on October 12, 2012 - 6:21 pm

    There was no indefinite detention clause in any defense budget for Americans citizens during the bush administration.

    I am well on record as being bitterly opposed to the Patriot Act.

    It must be repealed as well, however, obama has kept all of its provisions AND suspended habeas corpus with the IDWC clause of the NDAA. (IDWC=Indefinite detention without charges). A right held in the Western world since 1066. 1066. Almost 1000 years, wiped away by our uh, current “president”.

    For voting for this unconstitutional scumbag, all the while parroting your false commitment to “human rights” , it is you who are the hypocrite, and by now we don’t plan to see you saying what an idiot you were for falling for the guy, unless of course you desire the fascism obama offers as it somehow gives you licence as an adherent to the scumbag.

    So I guess you support the man’s tyranny then? He is obviously not be trusted, but you would vote for your A Freak Prince again? That is my modification of cliff’s nickname for the man who would be dictator..the African Prince.

    It would be nice if you even knew what you were remotely talking about cliff, you know better than to try and score points here with me, which is why, “he who shall not be named” is no longer engaged, as there is never any upside for your cult.

    Once again to point out cliff’s ignorance, there was no indefinite detention for American citizens in any bill or defense budget during the bush administration. As well, drone terrorism is a war crime, as it was in the bush admin, it’s just that obama has used the NAZI TERROR WEAPONS, 350 times, 4 times as many uses as bush engaged.

    Gitmo isn’t closed, renditon in foreign nations isn’t over, there has been no end of combat in Iraq, nooo, there has been the surge in Afghanistan, illegal incursions and covert ops in Yemen, Syria, Pakistan, etc etc.

    It is pathetic of you to even try to justify this cretin of a president, he is as bad or worse than bush, mainly because he is humorless, and obviously full of himself, his hubris literally drips off his tongue like the slathering dog he is. Like you clifford, ya Big RED dog.

  41. #41 by Larry Bergan on October 12, 2012 - 6:26 pm

    James said:

    Wow. Biden was on fire last night and craftily exposed the R&R “plan” for the economy the hollow shell game it is. Ryan looked like a deer in the headlights last night. The base is re-energized!

    I love the way Biden jumped at the opportunity to throw this in.

    REP. RYAN: Jack Kennedy lowered tax rates, increased growth. Ronald Reagan —

    VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: Oh, now you’re Jack Kennedy.

    Those of us who are old enough will never forget Dan Quayle’s “deer in the headlights” moment.

  42. #42 by Larry Bergan on October 12, 2012 - 6:33 pm

    cav said:

    And Biden’s prideful support of sanctions against the people of Iran had me asking Mrs cav if she recalled where I stashed the barf-bags.

    Yeah, that unnerved me too, but he DID make a very strong case against going to war with Iran. Romney/Bush’s neocon team would do both things.

  43. #43 by james on October 12, 2012 - 6:38 pm

    Larry:

    I agree. The Jack Kennedy comment was priceless!

  44. #44 by Larry Bergan on October 12, 2012 - 6:43 pm

    Don’t you love the way the Ryan cheering section just couldn’t hold themselves back from breaking the rules of the debate and guffawing when Ryan brought up Biden’s gaffs.

    Ryan makes more gaffs in a single day then Biden has made over his entire career. These idiots in the audience have been told to focus on Biden’s gaffs because it’s a bumper sticker and that’s as far as their knowledge can take them.

  45. #45 by Larry Bergan on October 12, 2012 - 6:46 pm

    James:

    Yeah, both of them. :) Whoever told Ryan to refer to Kennedy made a big mistake, and Biden took advantage at light speed.

    He was on it last night and it was great to see.

  46. #46 by Jonesy on October 12, 2012 - 6:50 pm

    To reiterate for people devoid of the knowledge of the struggle for human rights and its historical path…, Habeas Corpus, the right suspended by the obama administration through his signing and passing of the indefinite detention clause of the NDAA is ……………….. the bedrock foundation of which all legal rights that evolved beyond it trace their lineage to in the West.

    It is fundamental.

    It’s gone. It is no different than undermining a building’s foundation, once done, it is only a matter of time until the building falls down in ruins. Good job cliff, good job obama.

    The fundamental right came to us in the form of a decree after the Norman victory at the Battle of Hastings, William the Conqueror in 1066. 1066 is when the seeds of freedom, liberty, and eventual democracy was planted.

    Now obama has hacked down the Mighty Tree of Liberty, in a single act.

    This shall not stand.

    The anniversary of the Battle is Oct. 14, 1066. Let us 2 days from now mourn habeas corpus’s passing, and then gird ourselves for the coming battle that will reinstate it. Your politics won’t matter a whit if we do not, and in that if we are all Americans, it is our fight to win, and we shall.

    The road to tyranny and the clock that times it, has been set, and is now ticking away the moments until tyranny bares its historical true face.

    The two clowns debating last night and the verbal diarrhea they spewed from their mouths, are of zero consequence.

  47. #47 by Jonesy on October 12, 2012 - 6:53 pm

    And Cliff, the irony of you supporting the man who had this right taken down on his watch cannot go unmentioned.

    You are a Jew, persecution no more than one generation away from your life.

    You should know better.

  48. #48 by Larry Bergan on October 12, 2012 - 6:56 pm

    I think the first portion of the debate vividly pointed out that the strategy is the same one they used on Carter.

    Amazing that Biden was able to bring up the fact that Romney was out there talking about Obama’s failure to do something about the Libyan embassy tragedy before there was any chance to know what really happened. That is just irresponsible!

    It was one of two things:

    1. Another failure of some in the CIA.

    2. A success of some in the CIA at making Obama look weak. :(

    These candidates don’t care about national security at all.

  49. #49 by Larry Bergan on October 12, 2012 - 7:04 pm

    Jonesy, (the name you’re using this week):

    Cliff made a perfectly good point at #39.

    You just didn’t like it.

    Obama said he wouldn’t use his new powers and the courts are forced to review the NDAA. That could be a less sinister reason for him to sign.

  50. #50 by Jonesy on October 12, 2012 - 7:21 pm

    Larry, James, and the rest of the fawning acolytes of the Leader of the Cult…if biden had been in actual debate, he broke debate protocol by interrupting so many times he would have been docked points deep into defeat. If he was on a team debate the first on the team would have pulled his OCD ass straight out of the debate before he could do any more damage.

    It is a rather interesting factoid that is rife and unseemly with bias, that last nights moderator invited obama to her wedding, and he attended. As it is it’s a veep debate, and doesn’t amount to a hill of beans it is irrelevant anyway..Consensus was that it was a draw, but you guys can glad all Friday night if you want to. Got yer beer and weed handy?

  51. #51 by Jonesy on October 12, 2012 - 7:29 pm

    Latest from PBS Mclaughin Group,.projection: 2 votes for too close to call. 1 for obama, 1 for biden…and another debate ass whipping coming up for obama this coming Tues, who should write his talking points on his hand.

  52. #52 by Jonesy on October 12, 2012 - 7:33 pm

    And the fact the entire Democrat party and members of congress went along with the Patriot Act means what?

    Cliff made no point and now you are not either. Read my follow up. I. will. type.it. slowly. for. you.

    There was no indefinite detention clause for American citizens in any bill or defense budget during all of the bush administration, so cliff’s point, isn’t one.

  53. #53 by Jonesy on October 12, 2012 - 7:54 pm

    Democrats I think are unaware of how biden’s behavior turned many people off. Brooks is talking about right now on PBS…the debate doesn’t come down to any facts, it will be about perception.

    Ryan’s rather cool demeanor and his non reaction to biden’s awful behavior can be summed up by the dictum:

    “Never interrupt an idiot while he talking, always let him finish”.

    Ryan didn’t even have to do that, biden interrupted his way into every question asked of Ryan. If this is where Democrat hopes lie that’s trouble, most people hardly listened to the responses, they were too busy looking at biden’s monkey faces.

  54. #54 by Larry Bergan on October 12, 2012 - 8:06 pm

    What a fluff piece this is::

    News analysis: Testy vice presidential debate a wash, likely impact low

    At Fox News, the Frank Luntz focus group found that the debate did not move a single undecided voter, quite different than last week when many shifted to Romney.

    The Deseret “news” shouldn’t feel bad about this. The entire “news” media panders to the right and this rag has to pander to Mormons at a time when they hope to rule the world.

  55. #55 by Larry Bergan on October 12, 2012 - 8:12 pm

    Predictable that when Romney interrupts moderators and his debater, it’s called STRONG. When Democrats interrupt out of sheer need, it’s called testy.

    Biden was laughing because he couldn’t help himself. He was watching a professed gladiator go into fetal position on the battlefield.

  56. #56 by Jonesy on October 12, 2012 - 8:16 pm

    It’s just the truth Larry, be objective and stop deluding yourself..

    Yes Larry, biden couldn’t help himself, which is the problem.

  57. #57 by cav on October 12, 2012 - 9:03 pm

    Yea, Biden tamps down lyin’ MoFos reflexively. A problem for R&R (as in MalaR&Rkey).

  58. #58 by Larry Bergan on October 12, 2012 - 9:12 pm

    Biden actually alluded to the fact that nobody allowed on the media is allowed to use the “L” word except for republican leaners.

    It probably wouldn’t have looked good to see publications counting how many times he said liar.

    This is not a stupid man who make gaffs; that distinction belonged to the man who, literally, took office in 2000 – with a more than a little help from his friends on the supreme court/farce.

  59. #59 by james on October 12, 2012 - 9:12 pm

    Glenn. I think it is bed time! ;)

    Look forward to seeing you one of these days!

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