Republicans Don’t Understand Money

Titanic

Via Jason Linkins on HuffPo.

Yes, with platinum bullion at $1,587 per ounce you would need almost 20 tons of platinum to have $1 trillion worth. Whether this would sink the RMS Titanic is a moot point, because that ship sank more than 100 years ago. The point is, that’s not how money works. According to a 1996 law, the U.S. Treasury can mint a platinum coin of any denomination.

Yes it’s silly to think of avoiding default with a coin, but it’s even sillier to think that refusing to pay the bills for congressional appropriations might be a good idea (it’s actually unconstitutional).

UPDATE: White House Responds To $1 Trillion Platinum Coin Idea

UPDATE: FDL’s Jon Walker points out that if Congress refuses to raise the debt limit, without the $1 trillion coin the President has to make a choice of which law(s) to break:

The President could ignore just the debt limit law and continue to fulfill all the spending laws. Or, the President could fulfill the debt limit law, but that would require ignoring multiple other laws which would force the President to randomly pick who does and does not get paid.

More info:
Why The Fight Over The $1 Trillion Coin Is The Most Important Fiscal Policy Debate You’ll Ever See In Your Life
3 Huge Myths About The Trillion Dollar Coin Plan To Save The Economy

UPDATE: Paul Krugman: Mint that coin!

  1. #1 by Shane on January 9, 2013 - 3:11 pm

    Sorry Richard, the NRCC is right and you are wrong. The $50 in my wallet is printed on way more valuable paper than the $1 it is next to. Learn about currency before you speak…

  2. #2 by cav on January 9, 2013 - 3:59 pm

    Hell Richard, a relatively small quantity of frozen water, floating on still more water sunk the Titanic.

    This ‘coin’ of which so many are speaking is the perfect symbolic counterpoint to the figurative and no less symbolic ‘debt ceiling’.

    I say: Mint the coin, then flip it! Heads Obama wins…tails, the thugs lose.

  3. #3 by Richard Warnick on January 9, 2013 - 4:18 pm

    cav–

    You might appreciate this:
    Official Website for the Titanic truth movement

  4. #4 by cav on January 9, 2013 - 4:37 pm

    I’ve never heard of a Jewish Iceberg. You learn something new everyday.

  5. #5 by Oliver Wolcott, Jr. on January 9, 2013 - 5:17 pm

    If the debt limit is unconstitutional, then why did Senators Reid and Obama both vote against increasing it?

  6. #6 by Larry Bergan on January 9, 2013 - 7:03 pm

    Not only was the iceberg Jewish, it was motorized and had a rudder.

    Just kidding!

  7. #7 by Larry Bergan on January 9, 2013 - 7:10 pm

    The most valuable thing on earth to a republican is a zygote. Can’t we make a trade?

  8. #8 by cav on January 10, 2013 - 12:47 am

    Republicans don’t understand Money?

    Sure they do:

    http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/8647/horrabinsacrifice.jpg

  9. #9 by Richard Warnick on January 11, 2013 - 9:25 am

  10. #10 by brewski on January 11, 2013 - 11:55 am

    The statutory limit on total US debt was first signed into law by Democrat Woodrow Wilson (who also happened to be an ardent segregationist).

    Thank the Democrats again for fucking things up.

  11. #11 by Larry Bergan on January 11, 2013 - 1:58 pm

    Something tells me the desire of some to have Paul Krugman put in as the Secretary of the Treasury isn’t going to be any less silly then minting a Trillion dollar coin, but there is a funny little story going around about the guy Obama is putting in. He has been asked to refine his signature because it will look terrible on our currency.

    Must have been a doctor at one time.

    I can’t talk though, I used to carefully sketch out my name in cursive, but when I had a job where I was required to sign off on the accuracy of my work constantly, my signature became a scrawl also.

  12. #12 by cav on January 11, 2013 - 2:26 pm

    Flamboyance is Good!

    It should not make one dizzy however.

  13. #13 by cav on January 11, 2013 - 3:33 pm

    We can’t find money to hire more teachers, affording them a living wage, funding their pensions, because paying for teachers, especially from federal coffers, is sociamalism. But we will be able to find money to put guns into all the schools – paying for guards with semi-automatics and at least 10 hours of training, well, that’s….

    I don’t know what it is, but it ain’t sociamalism!

    As long as we have our priorities straight.

  14. #14 by brewski on January 11, 2013 - 4:58 pm

    “We can’t find money to hire more teachers, affording them a living wage, funding their pensions, because paying for teachers, especially from federal coffers, is sociamalism.”

    Oh really?

    “More than 1,800 New Jersey public school teachers have broken the six-figure salary barrier,”

    Is more than $100,000 for 9 months not a living wage in your book?

  15. #15 by cav on January 11, 2013 - 5:47 pm

    More than 1,800 New Jersey public school teachers have twenty plus years of valued service?

    And for only 9 months work?

    Maybe NJ isn’t a right to work state.

  16. #16 by Larry Bergan on January 11, 2013 - 5:49 pm

    Well it might be a living wage brewski, but I’m pretty sure I heard somebody make the case that persons making $400,000 in 12 months comprises the middle class – OK, probably some lying jackass trying to make the case that Obama was taxing the middle class, but that’s where we live, (The United States of Absurdity). – Thanks for helping.

    When are you going to start dogin’ oilmen. They just get others to drill holes in places they send our children to fight and die. They get taxpayers subsidies to do that – BOY, do they ever! , and they never lose.

  17. #17 by brewski on January 11, 2013 - 6:22 pm

    Is more than $100,000 for 9 months work, plus generous benefits, plus pension (funded or not) a living wage or not?

    Thanks for helping.

  18. #18 by Larry Bergan on January 11, 2013 - 6:37 pm

    Pensions are quickly becoming a thing of the past in this once great nation. Do those “generous benefits” you speak of provide adequate healthcare? If they don’t; there goes your home, the first time you have an accident.

    A living wage is a relative thing, unless you’re Dick Cheney.

  19. #19 by brewski on January 11, 2013 - 6:59 pm

    Pensions and other unfunded promises decades from now are one of many bad ideas that never made sense. Think of it this way, if you were 20 today, and someone made a promise to you telling you that they would take care of you in 2055 would you believe them?

  20. #20 by Larry Bergan on January 11, 2013 - 7:31 pm

    brewski says:

    if you were 20 today, and someone made a promise to you telling you that they would take care of you in 2055 would you believe them?

    Well, if I were 20 years old today, and my dad was in the 1%, it would be wise of me to treat him very well until he was 120 years old.

    Here’s to my health!

  21. #21 by cav on January 11, 2013 - 8:13 pm

    “…would you believe them?”

    Well, there IS the ‘Full Faith and Credit’, So yes. Yes, I would.

    Further, so should you.

  22. #22 by brewski on January 11, 2013 - 9:32 pm

    full faith and credit is not printed on any pension plan.

  23. #23 by brewski on January 11, 2013 - 9:44 pm

    “Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.”

    Says nothing about people not yet born owing you a comfortable retirement of mai tais and golf.

  24. #24 by cav on January 11, 2013 - 9:55 pm

    What about coffee and bicycling?

  25. #25 by Larry Bergan on January 11, 2013 - 10:31 pm

    You must not be a native here brewski.

    i used to ski at the best ski resort in the world; known as Alta. It claimed to have the “best snow on earth”, and I wouldn’t disclaim that. It was eight dollars a day when I was in my twenties and we had the best times of our lives. The ski-patrol used to make us leave, when we tried to smoke a joint before our last run, because we just couldn’t stand to have the day end and they didn’t want to be responsible for any injury we might incur on the way out. Of course we were smoking pot all day, and didn’t have any intention of getting injured anyway.

    We never would have blamed the ski patrol if we had. It wouldn’t have ever entered our minds.

    Now-a-days, you have to pay something over $50 a day to ski at the resort, so I’m out of the market. It’s a rich mans sport; or, at least a sport for somebody with a job that pays a wage that is comparable to the wage paid to a 24-year-old in the 1970′s.

    Over-and-out.

  26. #26 by Larry Bergan on January 11, 2013 - 10:41 pm

    Not to diminish Snowbird, Park City, Brighton, Powder Mountain, or Solitude!

  27. #27 by brewski on January 12, 2013 - 7:28 am

    I told you before, I am born and raised in el pueblo de la reina de los angeles.

    I also skied for $8 a day, although I didn’t smoke pot.

  28. #28 by brewski on January 12, 2013 - 7:31 am

  29. #29 by cav on January 12, 2013 - 8:56 am

    If I’m not mistaken, those ARE pricks of pure Platinum!!!!!OMG1

  30. #30 by cav on January 12, 2013 - 9:15 am

    BRICKS (must needs moar coffee)

  31. #31 by Shane on January 12, 2013 - 9:21 am

    Lmao, how to lie with statistics….

    Have teachers in new jearsy broken the six figure range? Why thousands have!

    Until you look at the teacher numbers and find about 2% make the money brewski is bitching about. And what is the cost of living in new jearsy? The index seems to be about 134.50. So you need $134.50 to buy in jersey what $100 gets you on average in the rest of the US. And the typical teacher in jearsey seems to make about $57,000.

    So a job that requires advanced degrees, costing you at the rate we are know driving students to bankruptcy before they even start, and pays about 43,000 after cost of living adjustments.

    Damn those uppity 1% teachers getting to work in their luxury cars and having their drivers wait for them!

    Speaking of people who don’t understand money, hey brewski! How ya doin?

    …or are you just lying to support your wrong headed point?

  32. #32 by cav on January 12, 2013 - 10:00 am

    The Bartlett and Steele In Depth from last week on c-span2/BookTV is replaying now, and is recommended. I wish there were a full transcript.

    http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/Barle

  33. #33 by Ronald D. Hunt on January 12, 2013 - 10:51 am

    I happen to know the University of Utah pays one particular teacher $700,000 per year, mind you he is a specialist brain surgeon, and the inventor of a number of new brain surgery techniques, but OMG he makes alot!!!

  34. #34 by Ronald D. Hunt on January 12, 2013 - 10:52 am

    skews the statistics tho, moderated

  35. #35 by cav on January 12, 2013 - 1:35 pm

    Ronald. Isn’t moderation irksome?!!

  36. #36 by cav on January 12, 2013 - 1:50 pm

    Conversation is off topic, so I’ll point to the $700,000.00 teacher as my example.

    Don’t want no demerits.

  37. #37 by cav on January 12, 2013 - 2:05 pm

    The words you want to use are: “They pretend to want smaller government, while bloating its size via military contractors, pork projects, plus hookers & blow departments – every time they’ weasel their way in to power.”

    I’m so tired of liberals who repeat, “They want smaller govt.” It’s historically, demonstrably and obviously untrue. Liberal talking point FAIL.

  38. #39 by cav on January 12, 2013 - 2:18 pm

    UPDATE: The Republican option to default on our debts and destroy our economy is still on the table.

  39. #40 by brewski on January 12, 2013 - 8:30 pm

    “The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.”

    Barack Hussein Obama

  40. #41 by Larry Bergan on January 12, 2013 - 8:34 pm

    brewski is now quoting Obama.

    Have we reached a turning point?

  41. #42 by brewski on January 12, 2013 - 8:45 pm

    I quote Obama all the time. His own words arguing against himself is the easiest layups I have. And I have a lot of layups since being right is so easy. I don’t have to work for it since the facts are on my side.

  42. #43 by Larry Bergan on January 12, 2013 - 8:52 pm

    Sports analogies should always be made with football, NOT basketball.

    Come-on brewski!

    I don’t know why Obama voted to not raise the debt ceiling anymore then you do, but why do you refuse to answer my question about why he put the war budget back on the budget?

  43. #44 by cav on January 12, 2013 - 9:43 pm

    Your quote from 2006 was a condemnation of the Bush administration, and of course their representation in both houses of congress.

    Don’t act stupid. Too many of us know all too well the republican generosity toward the rich (“My Base”. GWB), off budget wars, radical support of contractors in war and privatization everywhere, were the leadership FAILURES Obama was directing our attention towards.

  44. #45 by brewski on January 12, 2013 - 11:34 pm

    Larry, did you ask a question? You will have to ask him.

    Yes, Obama said it was wrong to increase the debt limit when he was senator and now he is saying it is wrong to vote against increasing the debt limit now that he isn’t senator. Just shows what a two bit small ball partisan hack he really is.

  45. #46 by cav on January 13, 2013 - 12:07 am

    Perhaps it was wrong to lie us into two wars while cutting taxes. Perhaps deficit spending is the way out and he’s just going round with the Judicial and legislative branches.

    Whatever. It’s a class war and preposterous to think we’ll escape it just because peace and smarts – are off the table.

  46. #47 by brewski on January 13, 2013 - 8:28 am

    smarts? what smarts?

  47. #48 by cav on January 13, 2013 - 10:28 am

    Smarts are often checked by vast quantities of money, yes. And, as the money accumulates to the few, the likelihood that the intelligence of anyone other than the Kochs, the McCains, the Adelsens, dare I say, the Bilderbergs, you know, the rich .001%, will have much of a say in our sweet, little, fast-fading democracy.

    IOW the smarts that are most essential to anything other that fascist dictatorship.

    Yes, It has come to this.

  48. #49 by brewski on January 13, 2013 - 1:58 pm

    I don’t see any smarts to which you refer.

  49. #50 by cav on January 13, 2013 - 2:10 pm

    Such a soft-ball, but, damn it…I’m not gonna do it!

    I will add this: Rumors are that Obama has plans to print paper dollars to help pay for his deficits. At the current cost of paper ($5.79 per ream at Staples), that dollar would need to be about 7 feet long. A 20 dollar bill would have to be 33 feet long. Can you imagine trying to fit those in your wallet?

    It’s absurd. And, so is the COIN. Right?

  50. #51 by brewski on January 13, 2013 - 3:13 pm

    It is absurd to tax companies for hiring employees.

    It is absurd to tax sick people.

    It is absurd that some income is taxed at 0% and others at 50+%.

    It is absurd to roll the dice with taxpayers’ money and not be concerned about safety.

    We do absurd things all the time and we keep doing them.

  51. #52 by cav on January 13, 2013 - 3:29 pm

    By Jove, I think you arrived!

    I do not think they’re taxing companies for hiring people, but for the added profit those hirees enable, to which the CEOs feel entitled.

    I sometimes think, ‘they’ look for the most absurd approach, because they know of the theatrics and are aware of the fact that the longer this drags on, the more opportunities there’ll be to rob us.

  52. #53 by Larry Bergan on January 13, 2013 - 3:44 pm

    Which brings us all back to a living wage + healthcare of some sort – NOT pills.

  53. #54 by cav on January 13, 2013 - 5:34 pm

    “In general, ‘the market’ is smarter than the smartest of its individual participants.”

    Robert Leroy Bartley

  54. #55 by brewski on January 13, 2013 - 9:25 pm

    Wrong. The government does tax companies for hiring people even when there is zero profit.

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