Yes, we were in the abuser’s house

This was the moment the American right has been salivating over for 25 years . . . someone stood on a stage and leveled all the charges at Hillary Clinton, to her face, and called her a liar, and glowered and swaggered while doing it.

And it fell flat.

It went nowhere.

She was calm, composed, even cool, under pressure. She didn’t break down. She didn’t fall to pieces. She didn’t dissolve into a puddle of tears.

Josh Marshall is spot on:

The whole debate, rancid and intense, felt like an ordeal to live through just watching it on TV.

I don’t think we can discuss this debate as citizens, take stock of it as a country, without noting that this is certainly the first time one candidate has openly threatened to jail the other candidate. Trump said openly that he would instruct the Justice Department to open a new investigation of Clinton and that he’d make sure it ended with her imprisonment.

That’s something we expect it kleptocracies and thin democracies where electoral defeat can mean exile, imprisonment or death.

Such a ferocious claim, one that puts our whole constitutional order on its head, is not something that can be easily undone. That’s the ranting threat of a would-be strongman and dictator The threat itself is like a bell that can’t be un-rung. Through the course of what was often an ugly debate, I was thinking a lot of the destructiveness of this entire campaign, virtually all of which stems from Trump’s transgressive, norm-demolishing behavior. It’s a topic we’ll have to return to in the ed blog and one the country is going to need to wrestle with. None of this is going to disappear after November 8th. These are slashing wounds to the country’s political fabric that will at best leave tremendous scar tissue we’ll still see for decades.

It was vile.  Not because of Hillary Clinton who remains an ordinary politician in almost every sense – with all that status implies. No, it was vile because Donald Trump is vile, because the American right has long since surrendered its ethics and standards, because the American right has long since given up truth and honesty and instead has played an amoral game whose only yardstick is who won the election, right or wrong; who outshouted who; who got the highest ratings.

Donald Trump, glowering, swaggering, striding around the stage, trying to physically intimidate Hillary, was every bit the bully, the abuser, the loud mouthed asshole. His behavior is vile, degrading and shameful.

  1. #1 by Richard Warnick on October 10, 2016 - 12:12 pm

    It was very ugly. Both major party candidates are despised by a majority of Americans, and last night they earned it. Trump threatened Hillary with prison, and Hillary came back with the claim that Trump is working for Vladimir Putin.

    Hillary both defended the quote of her saying that politicians “need both a public and a private position,” and then suggested it was a Russian fabrication. All she has to do is release the transcripts and we’ll know. Or maybe journalists could find someone who was in the audience when she said it (or possibly didn’t). Was she quoting Abraham Lincoln when she said/didn’t say it?

    Here’s the History Behind Hillary Clinton’s Abraham Lincoln Defense at the Debate

  2. #2 by Larry Bergan (mobile) on October 10, 2016 - 4:12 pm

    Republicans love to break rules of decency and kill things of beauty. Trump is their obvious pick, (prick).

  3. #3 by Richard Warnick on October 10, 2016 - 9:11 pm

    Watched Doug Owens debate tonight, what a shameful performance. Didn’t endorse Hillary, or even say her name. Backed coal mining and oil & gas drilling on our public lands. Just another Tea-GOPer with a “D” after his name. Deserves to lose!

    • #4 by Larry Bergan on October 11, 2016 - 9:15 pm

      I don’t know Richard, I watched the Owens/Love debate too. I had the impression he said he would vote for Hillary without mentioning her name. I admit, it was hard to tell.

      Some of the things he said were pretty good. I guess I missed the coal, oil and drilling part. Hope we’re not getting Jim Matheson 2.0, but it would be sweet to get the house back at any rate. Could happen.

    • #5 by Larry Bergan on October 12, 2016 - 3:13 pm

      You’re right, Owens did not endorse Clinton. That’s pretty stunning when you consider who she’s running against.

  4. #7 by Nathan Erkkila on October 12, 2016 - 7:47 pm

    Hillary Clinton voted for Iraq, supported the TPP, supports fracking, supports the arming of rebels in Syria and has participated in the drone strike policies. No liberal should endorse her.

    • #8 by Larry Bergan on October 12, 2016 - 8:10 pm

      Bernie Sanders is on the campaign trail with Clinton because he realizes Trump would be a disaster for democracy and the world. I agree.

      • #9 by Nathan Erkkila on October 12, 2016 - 8:15 pm

        And Hillary won’t? She is a right wing corporatist and stand for the same banks that tanked the economy.

        • #10 by Larry Bergan on October 12, 2016 - 8:18 pm

          Trump will tank the world. He’s a loose screw.

          We have to work with what we have and this is what we have.

        • #11 by Nathan Erkkila on October 12, 2016 - 8:19 pm

          Let’s also not forget that she is a war criminal

    • #12 by Richard Warnick on October 12, 2016 - 11:35 pm

      Doug Owens agrees with Hillary. But he is too cowardly to say so before Election Day.

  5. #13 by Larry Bergan on October 12, 2016 - 8:16 pm

    I thought Misty Snow did really well in her debate with Lee tonight. She’s well informed about the issues and it’s just refreshing to see someone running who is working in a grocery store and trans-gender to boot. The debate was at BYU and she is the only one who got applause. Pretty interesting and the most civil debate I’ve seen this year.

    • #14 by Richard Warnick on October 12, 2016 - 11:33 pm

      I didn’t know about the debate and missed it. I hope Senator Lee had to answer for the federal government shutdown and other Tea-GOP acts of economic sabotage. Utah taxpayers footed the bill to reopen national parks.

      • #15 by Larry Bergan on October 13, 2016 - 9:12 am

        The shutdown did come up, and Lee placed the blame directly on Obama’s unconstitutional ways. Also, Lee’s religious freedom bill came up. I forget the sneaky name right now.

        It was interesting that Lee was shaking his head yes through nearly everything Snow said during the whole debate.

  6. #16 by Smokin' Dead Libya on October 13, 2016 - 3:04 pm

    Here is what a psychopathic murderess abuser looks like..

  7. #17 by Richard Warnick on October 13, 2016 - 7:30 pm

    It has been said that Hillary, like Obama, is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Trump is a wolf who dresses like a wolf and howls like a wolf. Some progressives (e.g. Jimmy Dore) think he’s less dangerous than Hillary because of this.

    • #18 by Nathan Erkkila on October 14, 2016 - 9:09 pm

      It is a legitimate argument.

    • #19 by Richard Warnick on October 15, 2016 - 9:43 pm

      The Intercept has a story about Hillary’s plans for a corporate tax holiday for multinationals. Almost no difference between her and Trump on this issue.

  8. #20 by Smokin' Dead Libya on October 15, 2016 - 12:11 pm

    Thank you..have Mercy on our Ashes….Trump looks benevolent in comparison..

    Putin sees all. Makes plans. Bad. Psychopaths are utterly predictable, and that is bad in war and geopolitics.

  9. #21 by Smokin' Dead Libya on October 16, 2016 - 10:56 am

    The Russian prospect is armed with a dead man’s switch, which is something to consider in a HildeBeest presidency.

    Be more of a dictatorship frankly..

  10. #22 by Smokin' Dead Libya on October 17, 2016 - 1:34 pm

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