Posts Tagged Brigham Young University

Mormon Rejects Mormon Church Denouncment of Mormon Folk Beliefs About Blacks and Priesthood

Joseph Smith, Founder, Prophet, Revelator...and racist?

This is of course a very tired subject.  I did not intend on writing about it until I saw the a user comment on the Trib article.  First, a little background…

BYU Religion Professor Randy Bott attempted to explain the LDS Church’s exclusion of Blacks throughout its history until 1978.  Bott explained that by excluding Blacks from the priesthood, the church was saving them from:

“the lowest rungs of hell reserved for people who abuse their priesthood powers…You couldn’t fall off the top of the ladder because you weren’t on the top of the ladder. So, in reality the blacks not having the priesthood was the greatest blessing god could give them.

This is what we in Utah call Mormon Apologetics. It is an art form here.

The LDS Church strongly denounced racism Wednesday and dismissed folk beliefs about why the Utah-based faith banned blacks from its all-male priesthood until 1978.- Salt Lake Tribune

I found this in among the comments on this article in the Salt Lake Tribune.

I’m active LDS and I cringe when the church tries to cater to leftist political correctness and tries to change history. Randy Bott didn’t commit the dreaded “racism” either.

Most of the church’s response is absolutely true but part is splitting hairs because what Randy Bott said IS exactly correct, IS true doctrine, but what he said isn’t CURRENTLY focused on by the church (so since the church doesn’t focus on it, they’re implying that Randy isn’t speaking church doctrine). Unless passages of scripture and writings of past LDS leaders are going to be erased, it’s easy to prove. Past LDS leaders, by the truckload, dared to speak the truth that most blacks were not as valiant before we came here. Blacks DO descend from Cain. This was never a matter of dispute UNTIL political correctness came along and liberals wanted to alter all sorts of realities (btw I love how wikipedia refuses to use “B.C. and A.D.” anymore). Blacks ARE children of God and have equal OPPORTUNITY to seek for truth and teach it (equality before God isn’t true either and the scriptures back this up plainly, see Alma 28:13). In practice, most blacks just aren’t interested in the light and understanding of truth (they tend to prefer group think over truth). I wish this wasn’t the case. Whites have rejected Jesus Christ in droves and I would LOVE to see blacks en masse accept all the truth and remind lazy/arrogant whites that FULL conversion to the gospel of Jesus Christ is the ONLY way to happiness and the only way to receive the miracles of God. I would love to see God pour out miracles and blessings on blacks, but the sad reality is that most of them just don’t seek the face of God. There are many blacks with TONS of faith in Christ, but they can’t break out of the groupthink and the segregated “black churches.”

I’m not ashamed of the truth and if lying leftists want to use the only word they know how to use (the term racism) then so be it. The church only creates problems for itself when it avoids the mountains of past teachings. Supporting conflicting bills dealing with the criminal illegals was similar double talk that only backfired on the church. Supporting the idiotic “compact” while not signing it also backfired. The general authorities have a very hard job and frankly they’re not experienced at DEALING with thorny issues (avoidance is the current order of the day). I would have just focused on Blacks being children of God and left it at that.

Calling the mountain of past teachings by LDS leaders “folk beliefs” is intellectually dishonest. Oh well, I’ve made mistakes in my callings too.

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Torture Pro Judge Bybee Fails Backbone Test

Friends Say Judge Wasn’t Proud of Outcome


Via his roommate at BYU, this morning’s Washington Post reports that Torture Memo author Judge Jay Bybee is tortured by self-pity.

“Jay would be the sort of lawyer who would say, ‘Look, I’ll give you the legal advice, but it’s up to someone else to make the policy decision whether you implement it,’ ” said Randall Guynn, who roomed with Bybee at Brigham Young University and remains close.

In other words, “Its not my fault those evil men used my advice to justify torture.” Is Bybee then standing by his legal opinion?

Neither Guynn nor his brother, Steve, who also roomed with Bybee, recalled the judge distancing himself from the memos. But in the years since the first memo became public, Bybee left that sense with some.

Where is the personal responsibility?  Where is the moral compass?

Since moving to Utah years ago, I am frequently reminded that without religion there is no morality.

If morality – the sense of  right vs wrong — is derived exclusivily from religion, and Bybee’s religious training is straight from the bosum of The LDS Church…  Is it possible the training at BYU Law School is at odds with religious doctrine?  Or is Bybee a weak-kneed, ambitious, self-serving schmuck with a pretty face?

Bybee’s friends said he never sought the job at the Office of Legal Counsel. The reason he went back to Washington, Guynn said, was to interview with then-White House counsel Alberto R. Gonzales for a slot that would be opening on the 9th Circuit when a judge retired. The opening was not yet there, however, so Gonzales asked, “Would you be willing to take a position at the OLC first?” Guynn said.

I can only imagine what must be going on in Bybee’s head. “Dang. I got caught.”

Bybee should take this opportunity to become a ‘man.’ Otherwise, he’s going to face the fasted impeachment in history.  Three Senators have already called for his resignation.

What is he waiting for?

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Is The Salt Lake Tribune Covering for BYU Grad Jay Bybee?

A first time commenter posted this OneUtah today claiming a Salt Lake Tribune blog deleted it?s-bybee-large

A little background on Jay Bybee Says:

I posted this to Glen Warchol’s blog … it was deleted.

Bybee graduated magna cum laude from Brigham Young University in 1977. He earned his Juris Doctor cum laude[5] from BYU’s J. Reuben Clark Law School in 1980. While in law school, he served on the editorial board of the BYU Law Review.

I couldn’t find a post on Glen Warchol’s SLC Crawler related to the recent revelations about Bybee or his torture memo, so it may well be that the comment was removed for being off subject. and probably by someone in a more administrative role at the paper.

I’m not sure how I feel about that. It is certainly their right, but it also reflects a policy of control that is at odds with the value and merit of blogging and open discussion. I will send this off to Glen so he has a chance to respond.

There is a story here though. Not only is it likely that Bybee will be impeachedwhich would be a serious black mark on BYU, but it seems that BYU Law School graduates made up a disproportionate number of Bush era appointees and hires. The Bush administration proved to be an unabashed recruiter of the most dependably right-wing collaborators whose greater value was not so much in their credentials, but rather in their loyalty and reliability in following order without regard for precedent or law.

It should surprise no one that the neocons looked to Utah County for their foot soldiers. After all, Utah County produced Chris Cannon and Jason Chavetz.

BYU Law School has produced some good lawyers, but it has produced at least one celebrated graduate who has subverted his teachings (legal training) for self-interest and promotion and in the process, participated in one of the ugliest episodes in American and World history.

Judge Bybee MUST be impeached and then indicted for his role in the administration’s violation of domestic and international law. He should also be ‘judged’ for not speaking out for his Country when he had the opportunity.

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